Future Tribe - Business Podcast
Interviewing entrepreneurs, discussing their achievements, lessons learned and advice for aspiring doers and go-getters.
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Episodes
Monday Aug 23, 2021
Monday Aug 23, 2021
Welcome to a new season of the Future Tribe podcast! This season we're going video first - bringing you the latest news in design, tech, branding, business and everything in between.
Your hosts for this season are Germaine Muller, Founder and Managing Director of Futuretheory, and Kelsey Allen, Marketing Coordinator at Futuretheory and Manager of the Future Tribe Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/joinfuturetribe).
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In this episode we discuss:
1. The new Chandon logo
2. Twitter's controversial redesign (so poorly received that the redesign is being redesigned)
3. Australia introduces the .au domain (finally!)
4. Yoast SEO (a WordPress Plugin) has been acquired by Newfold Digital - we'll explain why we're concerned by this.
5. Poddit gets acquired by PodMatch and the future of podcasting
6. WordPress cracks down on the use of WP for WordPress extensions (and why we think this is an odd move)
7. Haagen-Dazs has a delicious new logo and branding
8. Gawker has a new logo and website - and Germaine REALLY doesn't like it._______________
Here are all the relevant links discussed in the show:
Future Tribe Facebook Group: https://facebook.com/groups/joinfuturetribe
Chandon logo: https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_logo_identity_and_packaging_for_chandon_by_madethought.php
Twitter redesign: https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/13/22623717/twitter-buttons-contrast-design-changes-eye-strain
Launch of the .au domain http://info.auda.org.au/webmail/872051/508298140/a991aec948788f58665eced3233ee21dddb677a6ec775f9fa386ef7cfeb37c75
Yoast SEO acquisition: https://wptavern.com/yoast-joins-newfold-digital-team-to-stay-in-place
Poddit acquisition: https://www.prweek.com/article/1724473/podcast-interview-booking-company-podmatch-acquires-podditnet
WordPress cracks down on WP branding: https://www.coywolf.news/content/wordpress-bans-developers-from-using-wp-in-plugin-names/
Haagen Dazs rebrand: https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_packaging_and_revised_logo_for_haagen_dazs_by_chase_design_group.php
Gawker logo https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_logo_for_gawker.php
Gawker website: (https://www.gawker.com/media/welcome-to-gawker)
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Find us on socials:https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/https://www.facebook.com/groups/joinfuturetribe
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Discover who Futuretheory is: https://www.futuretheory.com.au/ (and hopefully soon to be futuretheory.au!)
Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/future-tribe-business-podcast/id1475493358
Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/66iv9EWcsDa4fd3pal9JgD
Listen on Google:https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2Z1dHVyZXRyaWJlL2ZlZWQueG1s
Thursday Dec 24, 2020
Thursday Dec 24, 2020
This episode marks the final instalment of the podcast for 2020 as well as the end of our third season of the show. We couldn’t be more proud of all we have accomplished during this tumultuous year and we would like to extend a thank you to all of our listeners for allowing us to work on a project that we are so passionate about. To celebrate this milestone, we decided to bring on Damiane Muller, Futuretheory’s co-founder and lead developer, to reflect on our recent website launch. In the initial portion of this episode, Damiane covers why Futuretheory needed an updated online presence, the tools he used to develop our new website, and how this project was intimately connected with our revised content marketing strategy. Additionally, Germaine and Damiane discuss why Futuretheory decided to continue using WordPress as its development platform, citing that its open-source nature continues to make creating customised and secure solutions for clients extremely simple. Finally, the episode concludes with Damiane discussing future development trends such as the growing importance of SSL and changes to search engine rankings.
What we talk about
Reflecting on Futuretheory’s new website
The viability of WordPress
Content marketing
The future of website development
Join the community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/joinfuturetribe/
Links from this episode
https://futuretheory.com.au/podcast/ (Future Tribe Website)
https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)
https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)
https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)
Thursday Dec 17, 2020
Thursday Dec 17, 2020
This episode we talk to Alicia Lillington, who works in change and communication. Upon receiving her bachelors in International Relations and Affairs at the ANU, Alicia found herself in a position that all thousands of graduates face every year. She had missed out on the Government graduate programs she had been applying to in her final year of study and had no prospects of full time employment in her industry. Despite this setback, however, Alicia remained resolute and used her networking prowess to procure herself a position in the private sector as a Communications Manager. The experience she garnered in this role then allowed her to enter the public service as a Communications Lead in the Department of Industry. Ironically, her superb performance in various government roles ultimately afforded her the ability to work at the very government agency that she had unsuccessfully applied to after graduating, the Department of Defence.
In addition to her professional accolades, Alicia also has a love of education that has seen her take on a mentoring position in the ANU’s MomentuM Program. Naturally, our guest spends a great deal of this episode talking about the importance of mentoring, and even imparts some valuable career advice that she would often share with her mentees. More specifically, Alicia delves into the topics of how young professionals should network in their industry and seek out opportunities to advance their career. Outside of this, Alicia also discusses her strong belief in the importance of workplace equality and how she is finding different avenues for women to enter male-dominated areas of public service.
What we talk about
The value of networking and the tools/events you can utilise to network effectively
Alternate paths into your desired industry
How participating in mentorship programs can benefit you professionally
Workplace inclusivity
Links from this episode
https://www.instagram.com/alicia__louise/ (Alicia on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alicialillington/ (Alicia on LinkedIn)
https://www.cbe.anu.edu.au/study/cbe-momentum-program/ (ANU’s MomentuM program)
Find us elsewhere
https://futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe Website)
https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)
https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)
https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors
Germaine: [00:00:00] Hello, Future Tribe. Welcome to another episode on this week's episode, I've got Alicia Lillington with me. How are you Alicia? [00:00:59] Alicia: [00:00:59] Good. Thank you.[00:01:00] Good. Um, we're, we're both sort of coming off the back of, uh, some, some sort of health issues, very minor, but some sort of health issues. I love that when we're chatting about it, you, you sort of mentioned that you do a lot, and even when you were sick, you were just, just, you know, at 50%, but it's probably still 50% for you is sort of quite high amount of work and output compared to, to other people.[00:01:23] Um, Tell me a bit, a bit about yourself and I guess your, your approach to everything that you do, because I know you wear a few hats and [00:01:30] yeah, for sure. Germaine so, yes. Um, thank you so much for having me today. Firstly, um, I guess I've worked full time for government as an advisor in the change and communications space, um, kind of where culture and technology meet and then part-time, I love kind of singing, acting, modeling, and mentoring.[00:01:49] So I think it's so important to be kind of that role model for younger people. I think of myself. When I was, you know, at uni or just graduating and I just thought, what am I going to do? And particularly in 2020, um, you know, it's been a bit of a tumultuous year and I think a lot of people are unsure of what to do next.[00:02:07] So I really like to mentor it and just. They that person, particularly as a female in the tech space that kind of, um, can lead the way for people. And then with my modeling and things like that, that I just do as a hobby, I like to share, um, messages around body positivity and pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone.[00:02:26] Like I'll try and use it. Sport or something like that. And I just do silly little videos, but I get a lot of feedback from it. And I was initially quite reserved and didn't want to share much, but I found that when I would share, you know, trying, um, you know, skiing for the first time or something like that, um, people reached out and said, Oh, that's like inspired me to try something new.[00:02:45] So that's kind of in a nutshell. I mean, dude, what's. Yeah, as you said, lots of different hats, lots of different things, then that's trying to keep it brief. [00:02:52] Germaine: [00:02:52] See you in a nutshell, because I met you through modeling cause I do photography. Um, but then I got really hooked into and we really ended up chatting, um, a bit about work and that side of things.[00:03:04] So I guess, I guess we connect on, I guess, both sides of creativity and more of a hobby or something that we, we don't necessarily earn a huge living from, but they're also the other side of, uh, you know, Actual work, if you can call it that. So tell me a little bit about how you got into what you do in terms of your work.[00:03:23] Alicia: [00:03:23] Yeah. Okay. It's a long story. I'll try and yeah. Explain it really well. Okay. So at university studied international relations. When I graduated, it was like around 2013 from university and, um, the job market was really, really rough. Um, so then I thought, what can I do? What's a career that you always have a job in.[00:03:42] So then I kind of went in and did the graduate degree. Diploma of education. I thought if I'm a teacher and cause I love that mentoring, tutoring, that type of thing, you know, I thought I'll always have a job in that space. So international relations education then from there, um, I went back to teach at my high school and I love my high school.[00:03:58] I love teaching, but I just thought, Oh, there's a little bit more to the world. I just was like, I've, I've been here a lot. I need to go out and feather a field, have a bit more life experience and maybe come back as one of those. Cool, like older relief teachers, you know, the ones that just come in a relief teacher and like sing or something.[00:04:14] I'd love to see that one day. I also kind of thought I was like, Oh, I could be like Chris Lilly, a drama teacher doing, um, Mr. G and you know, sort of doing performances for the kids, but that wasn't quite what it was like in reality. Anyway, from there, I really did want to get involved in international relations and I was.[00:04:31] Researching the market. I was looking at embassies. I was looking at foreign affairs and I found this place in Canberra called the Commonwealth club, which is a members based club. Um, I reached out through LinkedIn at the time. I think it was about 2016, 2015, or no, it was actually 2014. And, um, I, so LinkedIn was quite new and you could kind of reach out to people at that time.[00:04:52] Um, and it wasn't, it wasn't a bombarding of all these messages. It was only a few people on there. So I reached out to this general manager at the Commonwealth club and I said, Hey, I'd really like to work for you. Um, I've just, um, you know, you've got two degrees and I I'm interested in international relations.[00:05:06] I understand you have. Quite a lot to do with that space. Um, and he invited me to be a waitress, which I am the most clumsy kind of Mr. Bean type waitress you've ever met. I have tried it actually at someone's wedding. Um, I was there, wait, no, it was not, it was not my best career. I always give things a try, but I would kind of was falling over dropping flights.[00:05:29] Germaine: [00:05:29] And how people like wait staff so much respect. Cause you've got to deal with all these people deal with their food. So people get really grumpy about it. And then on top of that, you've got to balance stuff. So yeah. I mean, I wouldn't even try it so kudos to you to actually actually like try it in the first place.[00:05:45] Alicia: [00:05:45] Yeah, I know. And yeah. Shout out to all the hospitality people out there. It's actually not that easy and you know, some. Um, Hey, we'll convey quiet, um, entitled even about a latte or a drink. And, um, I definitely think of that when I go to restaurants and I th I think it's kind of, you know, influenced the way that I am as a customer as well, working in customer service for a number of years.[00:06:04] Um, but yes, so like, I was kind of doing all of that and, and he kept saying, you know, yeah, you can be a waitress. And then I waited a little while I thought I'll reach out again and just see if anything's come up. And then, you know, again, just, he was offering waitressing. I kind of forgot about it was applying for a few different roles.[00:06:19] Um, kind of it. And this is in the not-for-profit [00:06:22] Germaine: [00:06:22] sector [00:06:24] Alicia: [00:06:24] or, um, I was tutoring, so I was a private tutor. Yeah. Yeah. [00:06:28] Germaine: [00:06:28] But not sort of any full-time employment at the point. And at this point, and you were sort of looking for that. [00:06:34] Alicia: [00:06:34] Yeah, it was my first kind of, you know, flagship full-time job. And I think, you know, maybe for a lot of the listeners or people out there in the market today, you know, when you take that step into your first.[00:06:44] Your first full-time role, it's quite daunting. And it's a transition from your kind of supplementary roles that you might've done during university, or you might've had, you know, kind of customer service roles or things like that. But you, you really want to focus on a particular career path and it's hard to get, because they're always saying, Oh, three years experience.[00:07:01] And you're like, well, how am I supposed to get the experience at the start? So I definitely resonate with that and paper starting out. Um, and then I was kind of doing my thing, applying. I sort of ended up having these. Job tracker, which I've shared before on LinkedIn, which was a little notebook. And I wrote down, um, it was suggested by a friend of mine, write down every role you apply for and take a more analytical approach and write what the outcome was and any feedback you get.[00:07:27] And, um, it took the emotion out of that job search a little bit more, um, And then eventually I was just minding my own business. I got a message from, um, the general manager and he said, how are you with communications? And I had never thought of communications as a career. I love public speaking. I love writing creative, writing all of those things, but I had never thought of it as a particular subject.[00:07:48] So, um, Yeah, I went in for the interview. Um, I had a bit of a interesting story that day as well, where, um, I, I finally got the interview at the place I really wanted to work. My dog was at the dog groomer and the dog groomer called me crying. Um, and this is my dream interview day and it was a really, really hot day.[00:08:06] I remember it was 31st of October. It was Halloween. I was like, Oh, is this like a Halloween prank? And it was. You know, probably like one of those hot Canberra days. So 30 degrees, 30 to 35 degrees. And I was in my new suit that I'd purchased for the [00:08:20] Germaine: [00:08:20] streets. So [00:08:22] Alicia: [00:08:22] yeah. You know, the makeup Germaine, my hair, you know, everything and I was ready hours in advance and, um, the, yeah, so the dog grimmer called me crying and yeah.[00:08:34] Actually your dog has run away from the dog groom like an hour or so before the interview. Um, and I was like calling the, uh, I think it was two hours actually. I called code up the general manager and I said, highlight, can I reschedule? And he said, look, if you want this role, you have to come stay organized.[00:08:52] Yeah, we've organized board members to be here and everything like that. So we can't reschedule. So I was running around Belconnen I'm in Canberra and I was looking for my dog and calling out. And anyway, I went to the interview and I think the message from the SS, I went to the interview. I perform to my best.[00:09:08] It was my dream role. I'd practiced. Um, I knew all my selection, criteria, everything like that. Um, and they called me up a couple of hours later and offered me the role. My dog, a lovely, good scenario person showed up on a Facebook group, had found him and took him to the pound and it was always well, anyway, that's a story about my first job and how I got into communications.[00:09:29] And then from there I was trying to get into the public service. So I worked in the private sector for two years, um, and had an amazing experience working there at the Commonwealth club. And then, um, yeah, it was applying. That was a full-time role. Yeah. [00:09:43] Germaine: [00:09:43] Yeah. In that role. [00:09:45] Alicia: [00:09:45] So I got to kind of do a change management process where they had very traditional kind of paper-based newsletters.[00:09:51] Their demographic varies a little older, um, probably 70 plus is their main demographic there. Um, and they're very traditional. Um, they like things to be very formal when people enter that club. It's very much, sir, Madam and I learnt new titles like Brigadier or commander or all those types of things, [00:10:08] Germaine: [00:10:08] I guess.[00:10:09] different type of clientele, um, [00:10:12] Alicia: [00:10:12] to an [00:10:13] Germaine: [00:10:13] average person. [00:10:15] Alicia: [00:10:15] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, and so, yeah, so I, I kind of had to learn communications in tailoring by, um, key, um, ma key stakeholders and things like that. So yeah, I revamped it. I gave a, um, I started, uh, an online bulletin as well as the paper base. So we kind of did that transition, but we had both available for them and.[00:10:35] Leading to things like digital messaging, digital boards, and also trying to increase the younger membership. So I got to kind of host events with people at captain of the wallabies and, um, have round table conversations and fireside chats. And, um, you know, I noticed as a result of those communications, we had a lot of interest, um, from younger people coming through.[00:10:55] Um, so, so that was a really, really good role. And then from there, yeah, I had just was that kind of Canberra girl that everyone had always said. Getting to the public service. Um, that's, you know, you'll be so great there. [00:11:09] Germaine: [00:11:09] So then you were in the, in the, in the private sector, sort of doing it, doing what sounds like a pretty fun role, a role that, you know, you, you really fought for.[00:11:17] Um, sounds like you were sort of persistent. Um, and then, and then you thinking let's get into the public service. Um, W, why do you think you wanted to do that at the time? Not, not that I've got anything against the public service, but you know, one would think that, you know, you have a fun role you're you're in the private sector, you know, possibly more, more monies or more freedoms between when it comes to marketing.[00:11:39] There's, you know, like possibly a bit more freedom to, to sort of spend money on, on advertising campaigns or whatever, whatever it may be. So why do you think you were sort of looking at getting into the public service then? [00:11:52] Alicia: [00:11:52] Yeah, definitely. So in that context, it was a very small comms team. It was only myself and there was no room to kind of progress.[00:12:00] I am very ambitious, which sometimes is not being seen as a good thing throughout my career, but I've learned to embrace it now and, and leverage it and, um, sort of talk about it in different ways. I think it's more about what can I contribute and. Um, I I'm a very dynamic go getter person. And I think if I'm in a role where I'm not able to be dynamic and all of these things, I'll just feel quite flat and kind of that, um, that role was a little bit cyclical.[00:12:24] So, you know, you had your 12 months, you had your things that came around. So, you know, you had your big Christmas event and I just thought, yeah, I want to contribute to something. Bigger. And I think we really need passionate, excited people in the public service. So that's why I was keen to get involved.[00:12:39] Germaine: [00:12:39] So you wanted to sort of almost, um, be the, the anti-public service public service person in that you want to come in and sort of, rather than just, you know, just doing what sort of falls me a plate BB, that sort of, um, look for new new opportunities and explore, explore that because, um, You know, it's just not something that the public servers are necessarily known for.[00:13:01] And that's not to say that there aren't interesting dynamic, exciting, passionate people in the public service. It's just not sort of the name that's built out, um, or, or what the general public sort of perceives the public service to be [00:13:16] Alicia: [00:13:16] Iraq. Yeah, that's right. And I think that kind of like a perception that I like to bust and I think.[00:13:21] Um, as well, I was looking at initially as being like permanent and all those types of things, but I actually ended up coming in as a contractor. Um, and I think that's something that a lot of people are scared to do. So I came in on a six month contract and I've actually been a contractor over the last four years.[00:13:36] So people always say to me, how can you be a contractor? Like, what if your role runs out? Don't you want to have maternity leave? Don't you want to have, you know, permanency and sick leave and all of these things. But I think there's great roles in contracting. Um, and. Yeah, they're out there for people to, to take an embrace.[00:13:53] Germaine: [00:13:53] Yeah. I think you can also get hung up a little bit on, you know, is it full-time, is it part-time, are you casual a contractor? The way I see it? Yes. That changes sort of, you know, how much you might get paid, whether you get paid holidays and things like that. But the reality is that you should be focusing on your focus on the wrong thing.[00:14:11] If you're focusing on, on, you know, what, what. Sort of your legal state of employment is, um, when in reality you should be focusing on what you can put in and what you can do. It doesn't, it shouldn't matter whether they are a contractor or a casual, like, I think back to my sort of work history. And there were times where, you know, I actually realized that I was getting screwed over because I was classed as one thing, because that was financially beneficial to the organization that I worked for.[00:14:35] Um, but in reality, you know, In the legal definition of things. I was actually another thing that meant that I got paid holidays, but at the time I didn't because I was classed as a casual, for example. Um, but you know, you shouldn't, I don't think you should get hung up on that. Um, and that's not a matter of, you know, Oh, you know, if it's desperate of the job, market's really, really inundated.[00:14:56] You shouldn't worry about those things. I just think in general or, um, those, those, those things you can account for like maternity leave, you can always. Save up and I'm not saying, Oh, you know, money's nothing, you just save up more money. Like, it's that simple, but you can sort of build out a lifestyle where you account for those things, rather than necessarily focusing on the legal structure of your employment and what sort of leave you get like.[00:15:20] In reality as well. Like you've got to have a passion for your job, um, as such that it shouldn't really matter how much paid leave you get or holidays you get, because you should be so excited about what you do. And, [00:15:31] Alicia: [00:15:31] you know, as long as you have room to [00:15:33] Germaine: [00:15:33] take holidays, like. Yeah. W w why, why should you sort of think about that too much and quickly to talk about the fact that, you know, you felt like, you know, the move was because you were sort of outgrowing, um, your, your role.[00:15:46] I just want to jump into that really quickly, because I talked to a lot of people who work in sort of the marketing communications space, especially in that sort of market where. Organizations really need to reach sort of a certain revenue or a certain size to be able to hire someone full time just for their marketing, because it tends to be something that an admin person sort of takes on, you know, like put up a few posts on Facebook, put together a MailChimp news that are.[00:16:10] So, you know, the way I see it, like jumping into that sort of role in, uh, in, uh, organizing that hasn't had that before or in an organization that has, that had a different version of that before is a good opportunity to sort of practice your skills. I don't think you should necessarily look for a five day a week at, you know, the biggest marketing agency sort of sort of position.[00:16:32] Um, but you take something that, that sort of works for you, and then you can make it. To an extent what you want it to be as well. Um, the catch being that, you know, I was in a similar position to you where I went in, you know, we had thousands of people receiving, uh, physical news that are moved into digital.[00:16:48] And then, but eventually it sort of felt like I was just in this box and I was just bouncing around trying to get out of it. Um, and that's actually what pushed me to just go full-time and start my own business. Like go full-time into my business because similar to you. It was just a matter of like, I've got so much energy, I've got so much that I want to do.[00:17:07] But I can't do it. And I guess when you go to the public service and you're a contractor, I'd actually argue that that actually means that you even have more freedom than if you were an employer employee, whether you were full-time or not. Because as a contractor, that relationship is a little bit different.[00:17:22] Anyway, you're sort of working for them, but there's a contract in place that sort of stipulates that rather than, you know, you work for us. You know, we, we own you. Yeah. [00:17:33] Alicia: [00:17:33] It's definitely, you're there for a, um, definitive amount of time and you're there to deliver something. And I think as well, that's kind of where I transitioned in all the opportunities that that led to from that moment, if I wouldn't have tried and taken a risk and I took several risks on different contracts after that.[00:17:49] So starting out. Um, the first role I had was at IP Australia, um, as a contractor and I was working in communications and, um, my director was kind of the head of strategic change management. And that's where I really learned the, the kind of one Oh one stuff about change management. And I was like, Oh, this is quite interesting.[00:18:08] And aligns a lot. We've communications. It's not the same thing, but I can see a lot of synergies there that I'd like to be involved in. And it is that stakeholder relationship and kind of, yeah. Enterprise change management. Um, and then from there kind of. You know, you're taking a leap, um, to go and work at the Australian Bureau of statistics.[00:18:26] Um, and from there going to department of human services, as it was known at the time. Um, and, and, you know, I think there's a lot of, kind of, um, different perceptions about different departments, but I've loved every opportunity. I've seen merit and. And grown from each department. And from there, I went to my dream role.[00:18:46] I actually got into foreign affairs where I was in it, um, kind of an executive level one, um, contracts level where I couldn't get in, when I'd graduated, I couldn't get into the grad program. And then I was these kind of AOL one and I was managing the grads and the grads head. PhDs, they had, um, you know, experience internationally, but I was working in the it space.[00:19:07] Um, and I did a piece around women in tech and looking at how do we have diversity in tech and, and that kind of sparked that interest, which has lasted with me. So, you know, through over the journey, I kind of picked up communications, I think. So change management and then the women in tech piece. And even at IP Australia, I was working on a program for the engineers and looking at women in STEM there, um, and doing partnerships with LinkedIn.[00:19:32] Um, and yeah, and now I have a really struggling scene presence. So I got to kind of do that from it. Yeah. Organization or perspective in looking at how we attract. Females in that space. And then from there, um, working at, um, sort of prime minister and cabinet on a whole of government, um, rollout, um, of an ICT system as the change manager and, you know, two 40 government agencies.[00:19:53] And because I'd had those little portfolio, um, Examples and experience that actually, um, led really well into that role. And now working at department of finance, I'm working for the shared services area, which is amazing. And I'm rolling out again. I've just rolled out an I T system to, um, seven different departments and agencies across government, which I've enjoyed so much because I've learned from H um, H role.[00:20:17] And you kind of, I like to think of like a toolkit and you kind of add little. Tips and tricks along the way. Um, you learn how to make communications scalable. And I think looking back to my first role, I had to really make it scalable because I was the only person there. And then, um, you know, how do you create an infographic, for example, that can be tailored across 40 government agencies.[00:20:38] How can you work with SMEs in each organization to tailor their messaging as well? Um, and how do you kind of build an Alliance of change colleagues across the whole, um, Australian public service, um, and. Also, I think there's a bit of a myth. Oh, change management. That's kind of the CEO, when the change manager, they all drive the change, but really it's kind of embedding and getting everyone excited about a new system or a new process.[00:21:01] And, um, when I go and facilitate round tables and things like that, people always mentioned change fatigue and just like, yes. Okay. Well, how do we change that? [00:21:11] Germaine: [00:21:11] Well, and that's where sort of the communication side of things come in, right. Because really, um, Communications is in everything that we do. Um, no matter what, you know, from when, how you say hello to someone, to how you email someone.[00:21:27] Um, so using those skills to manage change is really important because like you said, you can't have, if, if there's two people out of a hundred, Person even organization trying to drive change. Um, that's not really that, that that's just, you know, trying to force change. That's not trying to drive change.[00:21:44] You need sort of a, a movement to happen. And, and that requires like, um, up-skilling listening to people, having these discussions, having these conversations so that, um, so that, you know, W when you're moving, especially with technology, like for some of these, some of these projects, I'm sure it was like jumping from one sort of approach to technology, to another approach that requires there's so much change within their, just what they're used to.[00:22:10] Um, and I guess the full spectrum of ages as well. So people who, you know, were completely comfortable in any sort of technology, um, all the way to people who just. You know, we weren't really used to a whole lot of technology, so you would have to have to deal with that. But, um, what, what was it like sort of jumping from, or even at the moment, so you basically sort of looked for an upcoming contract and then apply for it and then engage on that contract.[00:22:36] Is that sort of how you work? [00:22:38] Alicia: [00:22:38] Yeah, that's right. And I'll, I'll note as well for the listeners as well. Jermaine, if there's anyone thinking about getting into contracting or starting out, and you're just looking for roles for me, it's been very much like a push and pull approach. So when I started out looking for roles and when I was new in the market, like people always tell me now, Oh, we know you we've seen you on this or that.[00:22:57] And, you know, because of my various activities, but at the start, I didn't really know anyone. And I had to go and chase the opportunities I had to, you know, use things like seek or LinkedIn or, um, there's a lovely way. Site called ethical jobs as well. And, or even, yeah, just finding opportunities, having conversations with people and really seeking those opportunities.[00:23:15] But eventually now I do get people sort of coming to me and I feel very flattered and lucky and they say, Oh, we know you've done X, Y, and Zed. So yeah. That's what can come when you are a really dynamic person and you put yourself out there and you reach out to people in the outset. Um, but yeah, so I do, I do contracting, um, I am through an agency at the moment.[00:23:36] Um, I love the agency and they kind of, you know, place me in different roles depending they'll go into the digital marketplace, um, and look for opportunities there. And then we'll put together a tender submission and I'm part of that. So yeah. Yeah, [00:23:51] Germaine: [00:23:51] that's quite a unique sort of way to where to operate, I guess.[00:23:54] Um, you know, to talk to that point of, um, you just got to put yourself out there and you've got to, like, you just got to knock, knock on those doors at the very least. And I was chatting to someone, um, just last week, uh, about this and the way I put it was, you know, you need to keep up. Trying and you need to keep applying and doing all that.[00:24:14] Then I think you also got to remember to, you know, have your, like your, um, side hustle that sort of keeps the money coming in so that you don't cause you don't never want to find yourself in a position where you're desperate. Like, and they just want to knock. Knock down the door, you know, you want to knock on the door, not knock down the door.[00:24:30] You don't want to, you can't, you can never force yourself into, into a job. And no matter how many times you ask to, you know, meet the, um, meet the head of HR or whatever. Um, so it's important to sort of have a balance there. I think of keep trying, but don't make sure that the reality is the financial pressures of life.[00:24:50] Aren't sort of bundled in in that, because then it gets very emotional and it just gets. Gets too messy. Um, [00:24:57] Alicia: [00:24:57] would [00:24:57] Germaine: [00:24:57] you agree with that? [00:24:59] Alicia: [00:24:59] I have a couple of things to mention there. I think when you're starting out, don't be too precious about the role that you go for. I think some of the mentees and students I work with, they say, Oh, I want to make the CEO.[00:25:10] And I want to be, you know, a senior manager first role, [00:25:14] Germaine: [00:25:14] or even something like, you know, marketing manager, like, or, you know, I want to handle all of the social, social media. And all I can say to that is you never had a roll past, you know, what you worked at uni and you've got a degree in you think like, really?[00:25:29] And, and, and I don't know if this will help any, anyone listening, but getting a role like that is, is like getting your dream car, right? Like getting a dream job is not something that you should just be given. It's not something that's easy. Like you don't just buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini that that never happens.[00:25:47] So why would you think that, you know, you can go from. Getting a degree and no experience to becoming head of head of marketing or something like that. Um, and that's not to say that there aren't people who are skilled, it's just think about the, the real, the, the size and the, and the, and the, you know, impact of what you're trying to do and thinking that you can do and just.[00:26:08] Just take baby steps, like take up a role that that's sort of, you know, seems right. Um, but isn't necessarily like it's a stepping stone on your, on your path. Um, and you don't have to just jump to the, to the big rock at the end. [00:26:22] Alicia: [00:26:22] Yeah, that's right. And I mean, I started working when I was 14. I remember going, and my first role was, um, Baker's delight and I used to work.[00:26:29] I wanted to go on in Italy trip and I was earning $6 50 an hour. Um, and the trip was like, A few grants. So I had to really, really save that up. And I had that kind of hard work instilled in me from a young age. Um, and yeah, I remember going in, rocking up when I was like 13 or so and saying, Hey, can I work here?[00:26:45] Um, and they were sort of like, come back when you're 14 or whatever, but I remember everything I learned at Baker's slight, like when you're not busy sweep the floor, always in customer service and dealing with people and you know, they're buying a 60 cent bun, but they want the best service and yeah.[00:26:59] That really set me up for success. And I think there's other things people can do as well. So maybe you can, you know, I'm part of, um, the United nations Australia, um, Canberra international women's day committee for 2021. And for example, with that, um, you know, I've been doing this socials and things and we can see the analytics really growing and doubling and things like that.[00:27:19] So why not get involved in kind of, you know, donate your time to get some of that experience? I think you have to put things out there as well. Um, and, and I've done it before as well. I'm like, okay, I'm here. I'm great. I'm ready for my role, but what can you give, um, your time to, and how can you demonstrate that?[00:27:35] And then those opportunities will flow back to you eventually as well, I think. Um, and yeah, and I think, you know, when you're starting out, maybe you do just take a customer service role in the meantime, while you're at, to supplement your income while you're finding those streams. I'm like still applying and everything like [00:27:51] Germaine: [00:27:51] that and keep that up and, you know, keep like, give, give yourself sort of, um, sake projects to work on, build out a portfolio.[00:27:59] Obviously it depends on sort of what sort of work you're looking to do, but, um, get active on platforms like LinkedIn. I know it's getting pretty flooded and pretty, pretty busy on LinkedIn now, but, um, chances are in the next few years, there's going to be another platform. You know, coming up and, um, if you get in early, um, like, like I did with LinkedIn, um, all those years ago, and it sounds like you did as well.[00:28:22] Um, you, you just got to sort of basically make your own luck and keep pushing, pushing that, um, and just keep working away at it. Like, I love the mention of, you know, Baker's devices. If there's nothing else to do sweep the floors. It's, it's sort of that concept of like, if you feel like you didn't have anything to do, you should have probably a list of things that you can turn back to and go, okay, I don't have anything to do.[00:28:44] And it's definitely on Netflix. Just look through the list and find something else that you can do, like, you know, put up a post on LinkedIn or work, work on a logo for X, X company that, that, you know, re redesigned McDonald's logo. Like. It's the stuff that, you know, other like your employers would look for.[00:29:02] Um, and then you can throw in and sort of say, you know, this is just a personal project that I worked on and it shows that you, where you want to explore you, you're dynamic, you're you really, you know, make yourself busy if you, if you're, if you don't have any other work and that's often an asset as well.[00:29:18] Alicia: [00:29:18] Yeah. Definitely is your point of difference. Um, and I think, yeah, there's just so much that. That you can do, and you can share your story as well. Cause sometimes I think, Oh, no one needs to see another work post or another post about this or that. But you know, sometimes, um, yeah, I've had all kinds of things happen at work and I've shared my story and it is those people that, you know, reach out and say, Oh, this resonated with me now I'm going to share it.[00:29:41] I have mentees and students as well that I encourage put your elevator pitch. If you're starting out, put your little, you know, a video of yourself talking about, um, what you do and put that on LinkedIn and things like that. [00:29:53] Germaine: [00:29:53] Great, good then a little bit further as well. Like with the mention of video, I think it's very easy for someone to say.[00:29:57] Just type something out, um, or even take a photo, but to get in front of a camera and actually talk, um, which doesn't sound like a huge, huge task or a huge, huge thing to do for a potential employer. I think at the very least it shows that, you know, You're you're happy to hop on and you're confident enough that you can actually talk in front of a camera because people freeze and, you know, you can't really edit video the, the same way that you can like text.[00:30:23] So, um, I think it shows a level of, um, capability as well. When you do that.[00:31:13] Now you've mentioned mentoring a fair bit during our conversations. Tell me a little bit more about that and how you got into mentoring and what that sort of looks like for you. [00:31:24] Alicia: [00:31:24] Yeah, absolutely. So I guess I was always interested in mentoring and everything like that. So, you know, at school I was always a peer mentor.[00:31:32] Um, it started from a young age, um, and. You know, after school and things like that, I just kind of, I wanted to be a teacher and I just had that within me. I just had that passion to help people. And I actually, when I was 19, I had my own acting school, um, which is not something I've talked about recently, but I really wanted to explore that and do that and instill confidence in younger people.[00:31:53] Because I, when I studied drama, I used to be a really shy kid, actually. And then I did some things in drama. I was selected to be Mary. I went to a Catholic school and I was like to be married in the school play. And that was. It's life-changing someone to recognize you and say, Hey, I want you to be, um, this character and all the things you learned from drama, um, have really helped me a lot.[00:32:13] So I think it's actually, you know, drama has helped me, um, be that kind of presenter and facilitator. Um, and, and they really interested in, in helping others. So at the moment, what I mentoring is I'm mentoring a program with the ANU called momentum, um, managed by the college of business and economics.[00:32:30] That's the formal programs. Um, and then just kind of informally. I do get a lot of people messaging me on LinkedIn, just asking for tips and tricks. And, um, I've actually set up a networking event coming up in the next couple of weeks for all the students and mentees I've met throughout the year, because it's been a virtual environment.[00:32:48] They haven't had the opportunity to make face to face and network and practice that. So. It's going to get together at a local bar and just kind of meet and practice and say, hi, my name is Alicia. Um, you know, and this is what I do. I, I also tell people they always are scared of networking, a lot of the mentees.[00:33:05] So I just say, you know, just actually go up and say, Hey, how are you? That's how you start. Because I think sometimes they want to jump straight into their elevator pitch. I'm [00:33:16] Germaine: [00:33:16] sorry to cut you off, but, um, I it's hilarious to me because I, I agree. Like, I think people just forget that you're, you're still talking to a human, um, and there's still sort of an order of, um, of sort of, you know, disclosing your personal information, which is effectively what you're doing.[00:33:35] Like, um, I want to know your name first. I want to know even what your. Into, not just what you're looking for in terms of employment. Um, and, and, you know, just take, take that time. Like at the end of the day, especially in these sorts of environments, there aren't really time pressures. It's not like, you know, you have 30 seconds and you've just, you know, everything is a, has to be condensed within 30 seconds and that's it.[00:33:57] You can, you can sort of get to know someone, have a chat with them, get to know them as well. Don't just blurt out all about you to them. Um, sort of make sure it's a balanced conversation. [00:34:08] Alicia: [00:34:08] Absolutely. And just have a conversation. Like I use the example of, you know, it's a networking event. What would I do?[00:34:13] And I, you know, you just go up to the buffet and or if there's like food or drink parents just say, Oh, this is a nice meat pie. That's an example that I would say like, Oh, what are you eating today? Or, um, what brings you here today? Those kinds of open-ended questions, just having a chat with a real human, and then you can go from there and they, and, you know, connect with them on LinkedIn.[00:34:31] Or do you have LinkedIn? I'd love to find out more about what you do, kind of an invitation to find out about them. But I think, you know, mentoring, I've got mentors as well. So I think I used to think, Oh, once you're a mentor, you know, that's, that's it, that actually I've noticed that. Um, so, um, my mentee mentor someone, um, who's like kind of a first year uni student and then that person mentors people from their school to go to university.[00:34:56] And then for me, I have a mentor and they have a mentor. So it's kind of, it's actually not just. Um, you know, two people in the mentoring process, there's multiple layers of mentors and mentees. Um, and anyone can be a mentor or a mentee. Um, and I learned a lot from kind of the students coming through, particularly about social media, things like Tik TOK, of course, um, and you know, reels on Instagram, all these things that are coming through that I'm not native to.[00:35:24] Um, they can really teach me about those things and. The perspective of younger people as well. I've noticed a real shift in the mentality of the younger generation. I think it's really exciting to look at things like, um, being ethical and, you know, the environment and, and, and these body positive things.[00:35:41] I've seen that really coming through in that those are themes that I think when I was, you know, um, their age, it, it just wasn't as much of a thing. Um, which I think is really good to have that kind of consciousness as well. [00:35:53] Germaine: [00:35:53] Yeah. And I think, you know, you make a good point because I, I too have sort of just thought as mentoring as this, you know, um, very much step down, step down, sort of, um, one person passing stuff onto the next person.[00:36:05] So it's sort of an arrow down sort of message. Um, but in reality, it's sort of a two way, um, whether it's communication or two way sort of explanation of things. And it helps, like, I, I definitely found that even with. Sort of, um, our younger staff that I'm chatting with them and they go, Oh, Facebook's been doing that for a long time.[00:36:23] And I'm like, what you, what do you mean? I use Facebook every day. Um, I didn't know that that was a feature. I didn't know that that was a function because different generations and different people use these things differently. And it's important to keep that conversation open because otherwise you just get, you just get, you know, ended up, um, sort of, um, uninformed or even worse disenfranchised about something or misinformed about something.[00:36:45] So, um, That's awesome. Now, before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you one more question about, um, you're talking about women in tech, um, and, and I guess sort of how that all, all comes in together as someone who's really passionate about tech, I know that there are the sister real lack of women in tech. Um, why do you think that that is, is a fact like, I mean, you know, I, I feel like a lot of guys are into tech in the first place.[00:37:15] Um, sort of that classic, you know, geek sitting, sitting, eating like Cheezel's or Cheetos and, you know, just gaming all day. Um, but then, you know, to my surprise, like I, I started playing PlayStation with my partner and she got really hooked into it. And I was like, hold on, like I know gamey girls are thinking, I'm not sort of, I'm not saying that girls don't game, but yeah.[00:37:36] Yeah. Is it, is it really just a matter of like all or part of it, do you think is that they just don't get exposed to things in the same way with the same sort of encouragement and push, um, from school and from parents and from society, do you think that's a huge factor there? [00:37:51] Alicia: [00:37:51] Absolutely. I think it starts at such a young age.[00:37:54] So on a lot of the projects I've worked on, it's like, okay, we've, um, you know, we've got all these roles and we want more, like, we've got a department, we've got great people, but we actually have more roles to fill in. How do we encourage people from the department to come. Maybe should the tech space and what we were talking about before, in terms of, you know, these new platforms, it's actually not about the particular platform.[00:38:13] It's about the mentality towards it and being kind of, um, receptive to learning new things, but with, um, and say, and so people always say to me, I'm not a tech person. I don't like tech and particularly. Women or I'm not, I'm not savvy. I don't know how to do that. Things like that. Some tips always restart your computer, always try different browsers, always clear your case.[00:38:36] If you can do those things, you know, that's it one Oh one, right. Um, and looking at things like HTML, it's actually quite creative and exciting press go to a website and press the F five button. Um, and I think we have to reframe the way we think about tech. So I'll tell you. What I think our next steps are, but I'll take it back to where it comes from.[00:38:57] And I think it's that school, I think it's, it starts from a very young age. So even, you know, five years old, that's when we need girls to start, um, getting involved in, interested in tech, get them to play with a robot and encouraged them. So a lot of research and data shows that, you know, we tell girls, Oh, you're beautiful, but we don't say.[00:39:15] You're really intelligent. I really like your curious mind. Um, and it's the way that we talk to these younger generations. That's going to have a big impact. Um, it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, like a blue toy and a pink toy. I think those things are totally changing, but I also think that the curriculums are being written by a male dominated.[00:39:35] Cohort. So when things are inherently written by those people and, you know, computer games and, and I'm a, I'm definitely a gamer girl myself. When those games, they are written mostly by that audience, it's not as appealing. So we need more females to right. Those games and to, to code them and learn these things.[00:39:54] And there's a real space for women in that area. And I think, you know, my even marketing, coding and marketing these things to girls at schools, we need really great teachers who encourage, um, girls to be involved and show the value. So what is the value of having girls involved in tech? So. A lot of, um, technology is inherently biased.[00:40:17] So from the moment you walk into a shopping center. Yeah, [00:40:21] Germaine: [00:40:21] I didn't, I didn't sorry. I'm just, it's just dawning on me now because a lot of people are into FIFA. Right. And they tend to be guys and it tends to be this question of like, Oh, I don't understand why, like guys and to FIFA, it's just, it's boring.[00:40:35] But if it's coded by men with sort of, I mean, cause at some point someone decided to decided. This game had to exist. And I bet that it was a bunch of, a lot of majority guys who sort of grouped up and went, how do we build this? How do we build the AI? How do we build the logic behind this? I'm sure they'd built it to cater to what the male mind is looking for next, like, you know, whatever I, and I'm not going to sort of, um, try and, um, guess what attributes are unique to male sort of thing.[00:41:06] The way male thinks versus the way a female thinks, but I'm sure, you know, it, even if it's like, okay, like at this point we have to make it, make it do X, Y Zed to become more competitive. Therefore we get, get men on the hook a bit more, um, or whatever it may be. And I just, it never dawned on me that, you know, added is at its inception out to FIFA FIFA 2021.[00:41:28] Now. So at its inception and then sin ever since then, they've just been updating something that has been designed in a certain way with a certain flow, but in a certain logic client it's so, yeah, that's insane. It's almost like self selection. [00:41:42] Alicia: [00:41:42] Absolutely. And think of the players and the type of imagery they use in their games.[00:41:46] I, you know, is there a female cohort in those games or is it mostly guys. That's how we get inclusivity and look at things like that. And yet, so the moment you work, you walk into a shopping center and the, the doors open for you. They're assuming you're a set in height for that to open. What if you're in a wheelchair?[00:42:04] What if you're not eight or like you're a certain type of, um, Yeah, hot and it doesn't open for you. So I think it's about thinking of things with a diversity lens, thinking of different people and having different perspectives, um, and, and getting people involved in those conversations. And what's the benefit for people?[00:42:21] Well, everyone uses applications like Instagram. I'm generalizing here, maybe everyone doesn't, but majority, a lot of people use these applications. But what if you know the algorithms and people get frustrated, I know a lot of influences say the algorithms changed. Well, why don't you get involved in that conversation in designing the algorithms?[00:42:39] So we need females in that space. We need you to be the developer rather than kind of just the influencer, um, you know, beautiful girls sharing their modeling, um, shots, but I'm sure they have a lot of intelligence and insights through using and testing the platform and there's roles in it, such as.[00:42:57] Testing and what is testing, that's just literally going through and saying, Oh, this doesn't work properly. Um, I'll make a note of that. How do we improve it? So I think just reframing the way we think having diverse people in these spaces and yeah. Start to think about, you know, is this technology, um, diverse?[00:43:15] How has it created, who actually created this technology and things like that, I think will we'll make a big difference in the long run. [00:43:22] Germaine: [00:43:22] Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. Um, And one last thing, I guess, um, before we sort of wrap up, I don't know if you've heard of Lisa SU Lisa Sue's, the CEO of AMD, um, which is the second biggest sort of computer braces and manufacturer in the world.[00:43:36] And what I love about, about sort of. Her being the CEO of one, she's a CEO of such a big company and it's, it's way up. So, you know, AMD is sort of, um, really had a resurgence recently and it's awesome to even see that because, because I think, you know, you look at the, like for a long time, um, it was older white males that dominated technology, especially at the top.[00:44:01] Um, yeah, it's very difficult to, you know, look at a cohort that's. That's not you and not like you. And, um, and then aspire to be, be that because you just don't see yourself there. And, you know, seeing diversity sort of becoming more of a mainstay and not, not just diversity for the sake of diversity, but diversity for the, for the sake of, you know, not like giving opportunities to people and giving everyone an equal playing field.[00:44:27] Um, It is awesome. Like just the other day I saw someone post about band-aids and the fact that band-aids are supposed to be like, they're designed for the fairest skin. And I didn't realize, I just thought band-aids were that color cause the band-aids are that color. I didn't realize that, you know, it was supposed to blend in, but then the more I think about it, the more I realized actually.[00:44:46] Yeah. Like, cause if you apply a bandaid and you have a similar skin tone, you just don't notice it. Where on my skin, it just, it just sticks out like a sore thumb then even that sort of simple staff, um, from the doors of the, the, um, mall to, to the band-aid, to who leads these big companies, um, the more we see sort of.[00:45:06] Equal representation or representation of different, of, of the, of the variety of people and the languages and skin color, and EV like Heights and everything that we have that the better, you know, everyone else lower it lower down when I say sort of coming up that future generations. Um, yeah. We'll feel and we'll do [00:45:24] Alicia: [00:45:24] definitely and different body types as well.[00:45:27] There's lots of different diversity that, you know, we can, we can have out there. And I think it's important. We don't just say it's kind of a, a tick box. Like it's like, Oh, okay. We've got someone who's LGBTQ and we've got someone, you know, um, our kind of, um, you know, diversity, different backgrounds. So now it's teach that box and we've got our female, we've reached out participation rates.[00:45:47] We need to keep going. It's not just something that gets you. It's an ongoing conversation and making sure we have, you know, gender balance as well. And I'm sure there's lots of industries where it's mostly female too, and we need more guys. We need more guy teachers. We need more guys in nursing, different there's lots of different industries and we need that 50 50 to make it well-rounded and you know, I'm sure there's lots of, um, young.[00:46:09] Boys who are growing up and, or at any different gender and they'll have different perspectives. If they have diversity in the teachers that they have to. Um, and particularly in technology, if you have a diverse teacher or a passionate teacher, I mean, I'm sure you, you, might've had some really passionate teachers and they change your life.[00:46:27] They shape your life. And, you know, people told me I was. Good at drama and humanities. And that's why I studied that. But if I would've had someone that told me you're really great at science or tech, and I was pretty good at math. So I was in all the extension classes, but I excelled at double major English.[00:46:41] So that's where I, and I love drama. I like A's. I was like, Oh, great. Performance is excellent. I'll do that. But, um, if I could apply that. Um, like the, the skills that I had for drama and apply that to medicine, for example, and I've worked as an actor, um, at the ANU medical school. So the people studying to be doctors, I'll get a script of symptoms and, and play out that scenario.[00:47:02] And from that, I've actually learned a lot about medicine and, um, kind of pattern recognition and how to diagnose. And I'm like, It could be a doctor. It could be so many things. I've only learned that later in life, but definitely what you're saying about the kind of, and someone told me the catch cry the other day, male pale, um, which tagline?[00:47:22] Um, we definitely, uh, we definitely, um, yeah. Need to challenge that, I think. And for me, my aha moment with engineering was high heels. Um, that's engineering. I was like, ah, fashion that's engineering. So think about tech in UAS, you have a device that's with you 24, seven that's tech, and you can shape the way that that behaves.[00:47:48] Um, and how do we leverage it? I mean, even things like, um, hopefully this isn't TMI, but like a period tracker on your phone. That's tech that's fem tech. That's healthy. [00:48:00] Germaine: [00:48:00] Stuff to even educate yourself better about your body when it comes to the apps that track your period and things like, like it's blown my mind, sort of seeing people use the use of technology in that way, because like, W w why hasn't this been at being for a long time?[00:48:15] Like, it's I feel like it's, it's, it's a recent thing in the grand scheme of things and like really, and it's, it's awesome. Cause, cause some of that innovation yeah. Really takes like it takes females to come up with that. I'm sure a male could have tried to, but we don't, we don't know what, what needs to be like, we don't.[00:48:35] It's not going to really affect us. So we don't know what needs to be included in what, what would be useful. So, [00:48:40] Alicia: [00:48:40] yeah. Whereas for a female, I'm going to talk a lot here. Sorry if it's germane, but for all the female listeners, you know, maybe you're in a really bad mood and you're like, what's wrong? Like it's so far.[00:48:50] And you're like, Oh, it's PMs time. I've got a notification that makes everything so much better. You have no idea what a different cause you feel like you're having a mental breakdown and then you realize, actually this is. Biology and using tech, it changes your life. Actually, [00:49:06] Germaine: [00:49:06] I could imagine, like even knowing, like waking up in the morning and knowing, you know, my hormone levels and my body's doing it, going to do a certain thing today, I can, you know, I then sort of can.[00:49:16] Move into my day going okay. If I get cut off, I would probably want to react in a very angry way cause I'm stressed or whatever. But now that I know that I'm stressed, I'm, I'm going to keep that in mind. And when I get cut off, I'm just going to do what I would normally do, which is just suck it up. Maybe flash my headlights and just keep going, or just, just sort of using technology to educate and remind yourself about you and, you know, um, and use that to, I just, yeah.[00:49:43] It's it's unbelievable. Like the stuff that I'm sure we will see in our lifetime in terms of how people use technology and how people use sort of machine learning to do do is just amazing stuff. Now, before we wrap up, I'm going to sort of spring this on you. You've probably not heard about the top 12, which is something that we like to do at the end of every episode, um, is basically four questions that I'll go through.[00:50:05] And I asked you for three recommendations and three things in each area. So. This is springing this on you. If you can't come up with anything, that's fine. We just move on to the next one. Um, you ready? [00:50:15] Alicia: [00:50:15] I'm always ready for it. We'll see how we go. All right, let's give it a go. Always up to try something new main lists [00:50:21] Germaine: [00:50:21] or podcasts that you recommend [00:50:23] Alicia: [00:50:23] short.[00:50:24] So I always say I love writing, but actually I listened to audio books, but I think that's the rating, right? I go on a walk and I listen to them. Say the ones I'm listening to at the moment are 12 rules for life by Jordan B. Peterson. Um, the another one I really love is called breaking the habit of being yourself.[00:50:42] Um, and that the guy's name escapes me bit. Yeah, definitely listen to that too. And then thirdly, um, 101 essays that will change the way you think by Brianna wise. My top three at the moment. [00:50:54] Germaine: [00:50:54] Awesome. It sounds like you prepare for this. [00:50:58] Alicia: [00:50:58] W I, you know, you, my audible credits have been running out. Yeah. Didn't, [00:51:03] Germaine: [00:51:03] it as much as, again, nice top three software tools that you can't live without.[00:51:08] Alicia: [00:51:08] Oh, I'm probably, I actually just like, yeah, I guess. Google crime. If that's like a very one-on-one type thing that using a lot of different browses, that's like my favorite one, um, on my phone, what do I actually have? And what do I use? I use light room a lot to edit my photos as well. And I'm just going to be boring and say LinkedIn, because that's, and I know they're kind of applications, but they're my favorites, [00:51:34] Germaine: [00:51:34] the tool.[00:51:35] So would you say LinkedIn is your most used social platform and networking platform? [00:51:41] Alicia: [00:51:41] Yeah, it is. And do you know, what's so funny when I'm out and about networking, um, and I'm, and to some of the younger people, they're just kind of like, Oh, I've got Instagram, like, Oh, do you have LinkedIn? And they don't have it yet.[00:51:51] So I always feel like if you'd have been, not in that space, that I [00:51:56] Germaine: [00:51:56] just encourage them [00:51:57] Alicia: [00:51:57] get on LinkedIn and also not sponsored by LinkedIn, but I'm a big advocate for it. We have all these different jobs as well that I've had throughout my career. It's a great way to stay in touch with everybody [00:52:07] Germaine: [00:52:07] and just connect with sort of your peers.[00:52:09] And like I bumped into bump into, um, I use air quotes for that into so many people on LinkedIn that I interesting. And I don't really spend a whole lot of time on LinkedIn as, not as much as I should, but, um, yeah, it's, it's a fantastic place to spend your time, instead of say Facebook, um, top three mantras, you try to live by.[00:52:27] Alicia: [00:52:27] Yeah. Okay. So probably, yeah. Challenge your assumptions. I definitely. Do that myself, um, like I have assumptions and I'm just like, why am I actually thinking this, um, change the world one conversation at a time. That's kind of my little tagline. I believe every conversation you have can change someone's day.[00:52:45] You can have a positive conversation, even if it's at the coffee shop or something like that. Um, yeah. And finally, we won that. Um, I went from code like a girl in managing the partnership with them at, for D fat is you can't be what you can't see. So be that person that is going to inspire someone. [00:53:05] Germaine: [00:53:05] Yeah.[00:53:06] Wow. Yep. Yep. I mean, even, I guess that applies to even like your social media, like you can't be the one, you know, complaining that there's no body positivity on social media and then in the same vein, turn around and edit your face. Photos that you look skinnier or you look like you you've got perfect skin.[00:53:22] You've got to be that person. You've got to start the conversation and just sort of say, this is me. Like, you know, just deal with it or, or just don't even mention it, put it up and sort of go if you don't like it, you don't like it. That's fine. We'll just move on from there. But you can't, you know, Ask the change and then conform to what you don't like, um, about what's going on already.[00:53:43] You just got to sort of, um, yeah. Be sensitive about that. [00:53:46] Alicia: [00:53:46] Absolutely. And I challenge everyone when he asked, share something, your fate to share on social media, that's like my challenge to you share your stretch marks, share, you know, your acne, things like that. And you'll be amazed and share a bit of a story about.[00:54:00] You know your journey with that. Um, you know, if you're plus size in, embrace it and share that, and you, you will change. It's not about changing a million people's life. It's about changing one person's life or day. And then that has the butterfly effect. And that's how we change the world at a grassroots, [00:54:15] Germaine: [00:54:15] for sure.[00:54:16] And it's so scalable as well when it comes to social media, like one post can reach so many people. That you don't have to, you know, sort of put up one person then put up H H one to sort of reach more people. You just want one post and it can reach as many people as, you know, you have the reach to, to, to sort of get to.[00:54:33] So, um, a very powerful they're awesome. And the last one, um, talk to people you follow or study and why. [00:54:40] Alicia: [00:54:40] Yeah, definitely. So they are some of the people that I'm reading the books by at the moment. So one is Jordan B. Peterson. He just has these amazing perspectives on life. And the way we think is a psychologist, um, by nature.[00:54:53] Um, and he, he just is fascinating. Definitely go check out some of his, um, lectures and everything like that. He'll explain the way that you think. And, and I think that's amazing. I love understanding psychology, particularly being a change manager, why we think in certain ways he's. Very eloquent and amazing.[00:55:11] And I can't explain him well enough, but [00:55:14] Germaine: [00:55:14] yeah. New ship as well. So yes, [00:55:18] Alicia: [00:55:18] yeah. Threats to Hayes. Great. Um, and then secondly, I love Russell brand's. I love that he comes. Kind of from these, you know, um, Lola cloth kind of background in the UK is kind of a comedian and actor. He does everything, but then his perspectives as well.[00:55:34] And Hey, you know, recently I watched a thing on YouTube from him about an analysis of the crown and how it's not historically accurate. Well, is that actually what we need? Do we need, um, historical representation or do we watch it for entertainment? So some of those conversations there, um, that that's, um, really [00:55:51] Germaine: [00:55:51] interesting Russell brand.[00:55:52] Cause I, cause I've always thought of him as a bit of a joker who can't be taken seriously, but that might be very, yeah. That might, that might be me having to challenge my assumptions and because I've heard, and I know he has a podcast as well. I'm fairly sure I'm very, very active. Right. So it sounds like you're active and eloquent and intelligent.[00:56:11] So maybe I should just, um, Yeah, check it out. [00:56:15] Alicia: [00:56:15] Yeah, definitely. And he shares his perspective. He's very open and honest and authentic, and I think that's what I value in these content, people that share content. Um, so, you know, he'll, he'll say things about breakups and, and different things like that in his time in the public spotlight.[00:56:30] And he'll talk about his privilege. Um, but he'll look at things through different lenses, which is really important. And finally, Favorite person and favorite book that I've ever read. And I didn't actually mention it in books, but to re-appear it, um, who, um, is just an amazing, um, advocate. She's written a couple of books.[00:56:50] Um, she, um, was unfortunately she was in a, a fire and she got burns to most of her body, but talking about the journey to recovery and what she's learned. From that. And she's recently come out with a book called happy, um, and she's just the most amazing down to earth influencer. Um, she's got a couple of kids and, and just is everything I aspire to be.[00:57:11] And she's very well-educated as well. Um, so check out to reappear. [00:57:16] Germaine: [00:57:16] Awesome. That was a, that was a very solid top 12. So, um, thank you for your time, Alicia. Thank you. Thank you for, um, being on the podcast and, um, yeah. Where can people keep in touch with you on LinkedIn? Of course. [00:57:30] Alicia: [00:57:30] Yeah, definitely on LinkedIn, under Alicia, Louise Lillington.[00:57:34] Um, and if they want to follow my Instagram as well, um, it's Alysia underscore and just go a little way. Awesome. [00:57:41] Germaine: [00:57:41] Thanks again. And, um, hope you have a good one. [00:57:44] Alicia: [00:57:44] Thanks, Germaine.
Thursday Dec 10, 2020
Thursday Dec 10, 2020
On this episode of the podcast, we had the pleasure of chatting with local entrepreneur and recipient of the 2018 ACT Australian of the Year, Dion Devow. Dion is a proud indigenous Australian who has spent most of his adult life using his business acumen to provide opportunities for disadvantaged members of his community. Initially, this took the form of consulting with Government agencies and academic institutions on how to address the issues indigenous people face when attempting to pursue higher education. As time went on, however, Dion began to yearn for financial independence and the ability to make a more direct contribution to the indigenous community. This led our guest to start a multitude of successful businesses (the most prominent of which are his fashion label Darkies Designs and ICT consultancy Yerra) aimed at celebrating his culture and giving opportunities to those who shared his struggle.
Naturally, a large portion of our discussion with Dion centres around his mission to empower indigenous people by nurturing their passion for entrepreneurship. Our guest also discusses some of the reasons why it is so difficult for indigenous Australians to reach executive positions in large companies or start their own business. When asked about his individual success, Dion attributes most of his good fortune in business to great time management, networking, and an organic approach to business development. The show then concludes with Dion sharing a cautionary (yet amusing) tale about a time he ordered hundreds of yoga mats for his company that he just could not sell!
What we talk about
Managing time between projects
The importance of promoting higher education and business paths for young indigenous individuals
Overcoming adversity
Links from this episode
https://darkiesdesigns.com.au/ (Darkies Designs’ Website)
https://yerra.com.au/ (Yerra consulting’s Website)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dion-devow/ (Dion on LinkedIn)
Find us elsewhere
https://futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe Website)
https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)
https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)
https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors
Germaine: [00:00:00] Hello, Future Tribe. Welcome to this episode of the podcast. Uh, we've got Dion Devow this week with us. How are you today? Dion? [00:00:59] Dion: [00:00:59] Good. [00:00:59] Germaine: [00:00:59] Thank you. Um, tell me a little bit about what you do and the businesses that you're involved with. [00:01:05] Dion: [00:01:05] Uh, well, I probably need to start way back when, when I was young, I had a long career in indigenous working in indigenous health, education and justice.[00:01:15] I'm an Aboriginal international, a man originally from Darwin. Came to Canberra back in 1994 to go to university. And so I worked in the public service, um, helping Aboriginal people, uh, like I said, in areas of health and education and justice, primarily as an Aboriginal health worker. And then, um, went on to. Uh, coordinating and running the ICT indigenous courts and came up basically to minister at sports.[00:01:40] And then I kind of, uh, went into the higher education sector where the Australian national university and the juvenile center helping in supporting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander uni students, um, with their, with their academic aspirations. And then, uh, about a decade ago, I kind of fell into. Uh, business. So I, uh, created an indigenous clothing line because that sort of gap in the market and going back 10 years ago, that's probably myself and possibly three other clothing labels.[00:02:10] One that had been around already for maybe 20 years before that. Um, but it's still, still going strong. Um, and those other ones that I started with back then have now kind of dwindle away, but now the market's flooded with. With, uh, indigenous clothing labels. And I think that's a, that's a good thing.[00:02:29] Cause like I said, when I started this a couple of months and I'm somewhat of the longest hiding labels because it's kind of, it's been a decade now that had been around school, dark is designed and I use the word, um, deliberately to celebrate, you know, my. Indigineatity. And, um, you know, being my Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander, all the heritage of being black and I'm used to have used that as a vehicle to promote Aboriginal and Torres shell, to us through clothing and all sorts of different things.[00:02:57] Design art. Artists and culture and language. So it's been quite a powerful, a powerful platform. And, um, I've also been able to continue my work around community development, through business, around the neuron and indigenous entrepreneur program. Um, and I have a business kind of the Canberra business yarning circle, which is a community consultation vehicle that I use to, uh, connect with Aboriginal entrepreneurs to see what we can do to help them with respect to their.[00:03:27] Business journeys and aspirations through the program. And, uh, yeah, I'm an ACT Australian of the year back in 2018, uh, because of the work that I've done through Darkies and since establishing Darkies, I've established for other businesses. So I've got a cleaning company called jingling. I've got two, it companies one's called Yerra and one's called Indignation.[00:03:49] That's all about change management and automation and AI, uh, um, and, uh, What else do I have? Um, I started, I've developed a business for my daughter called Tia, and she's was 11 at the time. She's 18 now. So that's another kind of Australian, um, contemporary online shopping store that has kind of, uh, Australian products, but with an indigenous twist.[00:04:14] Um, so she's an upcoming, uh, key pronounced. They call them these days and I think that's about it. Yeah. Yeah, but anyway, [00:04:21] Germaine: [00:04:21] wow, many that, that you, you, um, sort of struggled to even remember them. How do you, I assume you're not sort of actively involved with every single one day in day out, is it, is it, um, more now a matter of sort of putting the right people in place and then managing it from a, from a higher level?[00:04:41] Dion: [00:04:41] That's exactly right. So I do probably do bits and pieces on each. Um, of the businesses every day, some more than others I'm heavily invested in because the darkies is so well established, it kind of just runs itself. So, um, I'm obviously still the, the fittest of it. I do all the invoicing, um, the creative kind of force behind it and, and people know me more, I think because of darkies that, like I said, that kind of discipline.[00:05:05] So that's what you want to do, want to create something, employ people to then come in and. Do it take a step back and work on the business, not in the business. Um, not everybody wants to do to do that, but because I'm perhaps a different interests, that's what I've chosen to do. I think it's a good thing to do.[00:05:19] Obviously you have to, you know, build and develop your business to a point where you can, you're able to do that. It's [00:05:25] Germaine: [00:05:25] all about raising up, uh, a person or even, you know, raising up and training a pet or something where, where you just want it. You can get it to a stage where it can be self-sufficient. It knows where to find food and, you know, um, in the case of a child, more than just find food, but, you know, get into the, get into the world.[00:05:42] Um, but you do want to, you can't just give birth to a teenager. You sort of have to take it through that January business is that is the same thing. You can't just create a business tomorrow and go, okay. Um, I want to work on the business, not in the business. I'm going to remove myself from it and watch it take off.[00:05:58] That's not just going to happen. How many people do you have sort of [00:06:02] Dion: [00:06:02] working [00:06:02] Germaine: [00:06:02] for you and with you? Across the businesses. If you don't mind me [00:06:06] Dion: [00:06:06] asking, I engage. A lot of it depends on which one. So I engage other people to do different things. I employ someone full-time through darkies, um, uh, and have a few employees through two different.[00:06:21] Um, the other different businesses are cleaning our business. Obviously there's lots of employees cause you know, there's lots of cleaners, um, lots of different buildings and doing lots of working on different, lots of different projects. So it's a bit of mix and match. So can go from having one or two employees to having.[00:06:37] Quite quite a few. So it depends on the industry and the demand and the resources and the capability of the business and the cashflow and all that sort of stuff as well. So, um, yeah, so [00:06:48] Germaine: [00:06:48] it varies a little bit. Yeah, it sounds like you've, um, it sounds like the businesses are fairly low. Um, I guess. Not very cash cash heavy.[00:07:00] Not that there aren't a lot of, sort of, you guys have offices for every single business [00:07:07] Dion: [00:07:07] for a long time. I just worked from home, but I, uh, um, you know, it has its ups and downs, but I. Conduct was quite lightly, especially, um, when I was first starting out because it was another lot of Aboriginal people in business at the time.[00:07:21] So I remember going back a decade ago, it was before the development and implementation of the indigenous procurement policy. Did the government brought in like five years ago? Um, since then, I think a lot of them, a lot more Aboriginal people are now participating in business and becoming business owners because there's more opportunity.[00:07:40] Whereas when I was doing it and I was kind of, not really many around they were, but they're kind of thing. Doing things in the Salas. And that was my idea. And creating the yarning center to bring Aboriginal people together, to talk and support each other and discuss kind of wins and losses and that sort of stuff, and create creating a movement that was kind of a supportive for, um, for people.[00:08:01] And, uh, Uh, cause it was quite lonely. So, um, when I had enough money and resources, um, I've got an office, I've got an office spaced in deacon and uh, so, uh, also have spaces for. Young entrepreneurs that, um, would like to come and hold hot desk, um, Aboriginal ones. Um, and, uh, and then people from the respective businesses work a couple of days, some are part time.[00:08:26] Do you know what I mean? As that one, one of my business partners is coming back into the workforce, being home for a decade with her children. So, um, it's a bit of a mixed bag. Should we just stick to the, the, um, the, the office, the air offices, but that's what I wanted. Something that was. Quite fluid and, um, there's a bit of diversity there there's opportunity for entrepreneurs to come and work if they want to for free, um, you know, a couple of days a week.[00:08:50] And, um, yeah, just a place that I can have, you know, obviously working meetings and, um, you know, so forth. So it's been quite, it's a beautiful space and, uh, it's a nice area and, um, yeah. It's actually really good night. I know that, you know, working at home has its advantages, but I think I quite like to have a bit of a mix.[00:09:08] Um, if I want to work from home, I will, but if I want to have, you know, a really professional, um, business meeting in a boardroom, then. I have the opportunity to do that too. So, yeah. And I'm also helping other young, well, not necessarily young, just other indigenous entrepreneurs, [00:09:23] Germaine: [00:09:23] just entrepreneurs in general that they don't have to be young because, you know, especially nowadays I think there's there's, I mean, there was a time, I think when there were people who were sort of career entrepreneurs, if you could call them that.[00:09:36] But, but nowadays there's no reason why you can't just leave what you were doing and start a business. 50 60, 80 [00:09:43] Dion: [00:09:43] people do that. And I've encouraged people to do that. There's a friend of mine, actually, when I was at university, he was one of the support workers in the Aboriginal center. Um, and, uh, did the route that I did.[00:09:55] I knew. And, um, and so I've known him for a long, long time and, uh, Uh, he's a storyteller. So you guys tell stories and talk to that Aboriginal culture and stuff to kids. He's really good at it. I said, you should do that full time. And I really encouraged him. I couldn't do that. Full-time and, um, but he ended up leaving and he was, I think he was 50, maybe 55 when he left.[00:10:14] Yeah, full time employment employment. And now he's kind of just looked down, like you said, overseas travel defendant, booked him to do things overseas, you know, um, for diplomats, um, and so forth over there. And I just think that, you know, lucky, if you give people an idea and encourage them, then you know, the sky is really the limit.[00:10:31] And I think sometimes we kind of, don't really kind of believe in ourselves enough or don't understand that there is opportunity there to really thrive. Uh, in the business kind of sector. [00:10:41] Germaine: [00:10:41] Yeah, because I think, um, and, and some of that happens through, you know, your upbringing through tradition.[00:10:51] That's all good.[00:10:56] Dion: [00:10:56] Sorry [00:10:59] Germaine: [00:10:59] just saying, um, you know, some of these things, some of these limits, I think people might place it on themselves where there's also almost like upbringing and tradition and family that plays with place limits not, and those. Limits on, not because they want to stifle you and stop you and stop you from growing.[00:11:17] But it's because they feel like, you know, within those parameters is safety, right? Um, like there's a reason why there's people who don't leave their, their country town because that's safe. That's a known quantity. You know, you go into the. Big bad city. There's there's advertising and drugs and all these bad things.[00:11:35] And, you know, business to an extent can look like and seem like the same thing, because there's this promise of almost greatness, but, but at the same time, you know, we all know people who've failed in business as well. So it's not like you just get into business and succeed and all this is, I guess, too.[00:11:52] Ask you about what you've, if you felt like there were any pressures sort of guiding you down the more traditional [00:11:59] Dion: [00:11:59] route, [00:12:00] Germaine: [00:12:00] um, and, and how that came to be. And I guess I'm asking that also because I'm, I'm straight Lankan, so my parents follow a very sort of traditional. Direction, um, getting into business.[00:12:12] Wasn't really something. I mean, even the, even the more, you know, less, less traditional parents, I think wouldn't necessarily point their kid towards business. It's becoming more of a thing now, but there's definitely sort of this, these roadblocks almost. And did you get any of that? Did you feel any of that sort of one, you know, going into a world where.[00:12:32] There aren't a lot of indigenous people. And then two, I guess, looking into your background as well. [00:12:37] Dion: [00:12:37] Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I wasn't, I definitely wasn't the courage to become a business person. Um, I had seen other people in my family and family members that were in business. My father was one of them. He had a cleaning business when I was growing up.[00:12:49] Um, so, but it wasn't, so it wasn't something that was foreign to me, but, but education was more something you have to go to university, you have to get to uni university like that. It was just, you know, um, instilled in me from a young age, like just CyberKnife Bernard, and I were guidance. I thought, you know, and I saw my mother go from working as a cleaner, um, as a career to studying part-time.[00:13:11] Um, and. The timing, a university degree and then becoming a teacher. And then, so how that recharged our assessor economic status kind of overnight. So I had a real kind of firsthand experience, um, around what edge can do. So I kind of, you know, I have to do that. Um, and so well, I had quite a good career, you know, university graduate and.[00:13:37] I kind of fell into this. Um, so I didn't ever think that I would become a business person. So it's quite strange that I am. Um, I never, anyone, when I started, um, darkies, I thought it was just something that I'll do on the side and, you know, I'd never ever give up the security of a full-time permanent position anyway, but, but I did.[00:13:56] So I think, you know, like sometimes people fall into it. Um, and for me it was kind of the realization that I could make. Good money, um, still and, um, make even more money working for myself and dug it wrong. That didn't have a matter of not, um, I've been in business for 10 years and maybe five years ago, it was really bad.[00:14:13] I was kinda thinking, well, I gave this a crack. I might have to just go back and get a job. Um, But then I want to ICT as, rather than a year. So things got to change.[00:14:23] Germaine: [00:14:23] Like I think I always, I ask myself this question and, um, it's something that comes up when we need to talk about a lot of sort of, um, celebrities and famous figures. Someone always points to something goes, well, you know, in your case, he won Australian of SED Australian of the year. And that's what. Um, sort of, you know, without that he wouldn't, he wouldn't have been able to do all these things almost like, um, that happened in a vacuum where you would hear all this other stuff, you know, like, like, and it always sort of [00:14:52] Dion: [00:14:52] really confuses me when [00:14:54] Germaine: [00:14:54] people bring up that argument of, you know, And, and the one that I hear a lot of is, you know, well, they were born into a family with a lot of money if they weren't billionaires.[00:15:03] Well, you know, this person couldn't have started a business, for example, like, but at the same time, I know heaps of people who have won prizes who have won awards who have come from money, who aren't actually able to do what, you know, what they would happily point at someone else and say, well, they were able to do it because of these reasons, rather than pointing to.[00:15:24] They were able to do it because of all this hardware that they put in, um, in your case, you know, like it would have been I'm sure the award was never something that you were working towards, but it just happened as a result of all this other work that you put in. And it sounds like you sort of started off with the darkies design by the way, like completely controversial name.[00:15:45] I'm sure when you, and he came up with it.[00:15:50] Dion: [00:15:50] Yeah. [00:15:50] Germaine: [00:15:50] Yeah. I mean, when I heard it first, I was like, Oh, is this, you know, is this guy serious? Like, that's that's um, my first instinct was, I hope the guy who's behind this is dark or, or, you know, or doc I think to do with like, like emo goth or something. Cause I was like, otherwise, this is, this is a statement, but like going back.[00:16:10] So you started a bit as a side gig side hustle while you were sort of working a normal job. [00:16:15] Dion: [00:16:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I kind of, um, Uh, and it was all kind of about, you know, empowering Aboriginal people. What'd you think? So there was a message behind it, you know, it is controversial, it was controversial. It still is.[00:16:28] Um, and I suppose it was really kind of just something, because I'd already worked in community development, helping Aboriginal international people for 15 years by that. Do you know what I mean? So. I know, I kind of stole so much, um, so much negativity and so much distress and turmoil and, um, you know, it's just, you know, working so intensely and closely with people on the ground, um, that I kind of just wanted to create something that made people feel good about themselves, even if it was just for a couple of hours.[00:16:58] So, um, and you know, most of the time. You know, Aboriginal people are proud people. And I think that, you know, uh, putting a symbol or some sort of language thing or Aboriginal art or something that really kind of promotes and celebrates. And, um, it gives us the opportunity to do that. As Aboriginal people gives us a sense of empowerment and gives us some pride.[00:17:21] And, um, and so that was really the idea. The idea behind, uh, the LiveWell and that, you know, it's just really giving people the opportunity to Aboriginal people in touch with the opportunity to express how proud they are of our culture through, you know, clothing. So, and that that's kind of grown and developed.[00:17:39] Uh, do sporting apparel and, um, corporate clothing and which isn't indigenous and promotional materials and print products. And, but that's just kind of a diversification of the, the, um, and development of the business to have different lines of business. Um, but you know, there's certain to piece of it.[00:17:57] Yeah. Is it around Aboriginal and tarsal, a culture and, um, and a, and Aboriginal art and language. And, and, and it's something that sets me apart, I think, from, from other clothing labels. And, and I do my own things to a little bit different. Certainly, um, then the other indigenous labels that have come about over the last five years, um, that's kept me going and kept me relevant and kept me, um, you know, Bible as a business.[00:18:23] Germaine: [00:18:23] Yeah. Yeah. Is there also an element here of sort of, um, creating something that. And so those questions or that, that serves a need that you felt like you had, um, you know, five, 10, 15 years back that, and felt like there was opportunity, or you were looking for someone to serve this need that you had, but you couldn't find something.[00:18:44] So is there a feeling of sort of creating that thing that you wish you had as well? [00:18:50] Dion: [00:18:50] The other thing, the other kind of element around the creation of the labels that like I was saying, there was only a couple. But I always really wanted to wear some cool Aboriginal kind of art on, on, on different sorts of apparel and like, you know, I was supportive of it, but I thought I would like, you know what I mean?[00:19:06] So I kind of created my own. Um, and, and so that's why I kind of engaged. Age with Aboriginal artists and our use, you know, in terms of design I'll, I'll do that. Um, uh, you know, just put things, let me just look and say, well, what are you gonna think about this? Do you know what I mean? And, um, I'm kind of a bit, it's just market research, um, through social media.[00:19:26] So. I think it's important, important to do that, but I think, you know, like being driven to life, what I think is cool, but also, you know, what the public thinks and what they think might be call them what they might want away, because it's smart in terms of, you know, your business, um, and being a business person because.[00:19:43] Oh, fun and good. If I think something's cool, but if other people don't, then [00:19:48] Germaine: [00:19:48] I don't have a business idea, you just have something that's sort of a Pat yourself on the back gives you what you want, but doesn't really answer a question. [00:19:57] Dion: [00:19:57] Yeah. And that's what I said to a lot of people. It's like they have these.[00:20:01] They think they have these fantastic ideas, but I say to them, well, that's great. You know, scrub the YouTube, it that's good, but who's going to buy it. So that's the question that you have to ask yourself and you have to do some market research and you can do that right. Really easily through social media, you know?[00:20:13] Um, and it one image for people to look at. And you know, now that I'm not, it's [00:20:19] Germaine: [00:20:19] so simple these days, I, I like do this, um, thing that a few people comment like have even in real life sort of mentioned it to me, that they love sort of seeing something like that, pop up on my Instagram stories where, um, I just do simple things.[00:20:33] Like at one point I was thinking about, um, creating like a subscription tea service. Right. So, um, the whole point there was to try and source. Authentic tea from Sri Lanka, and then you can sort of subscribe, um, and then, you know, a certain portion of it, um, would, um, go, go towards some, some charity of some sort.[00:20:55] Um, and the big goal there was, you know, say 50% of profits would go to a local charity. So you're helping someone in Australia and then 50% would go to Australia and a charity. So you sort of getting both in one go. Um, and all I started to do was put up Instagram stories. With the poll feature to say, you know, do drink tea or do drink coffee, do what kind of teacher drink, you know, black tea or green tea, and did that over like a week's time.[00:21:19] And I got all this amazing feedback and people don't, it was just fun. And they w they would just tell me, you know, they were just going to respond. Like, I think people would love to be like, Oh, you know, That person wants my feedback. I'm going to sort of vote. It's like this thing that happens. And at the same time, you know, I got 60 to a hundred different responses about, you know, this.[00:21:42] This product that I was, I was thinking about making never happened. Never did it because I didn't have the time, but, you know, I guess it's all just say how easy it is nowadays to do this. [00:21:53] Dion: [00:21:53] Yeah. And you'll get, you'll get some supported or smashed very quickly.[00:22:00] So excited, these really cool yoga mats. Um, probably about four years ago and no one had known as doing them. So I had, um, somebody collaborative last month and I put the images up, got some, um, kind of samples made and they just went off quality, you know, so I got all these. Older manufactured and, um, cost me a lot of money and others didn't sell.[00:22:23] So they were actually sitting underneath my bed for three and a half years, and then the pandemic hit and, you know, no one could go to gym. So, um, they sold it like that. I thought, okay. I might just see, you know, how these guys have the yoga mats go. Now that people can't go to a gym. Right. So, and so they just saw that.[00:22:41] When crazy. So, um, sometimes things don't sell straight away, you know, there's always risk, I suppose, is what I'm trying to say in the business. But I think, um, and you'll always kind of make mistakes and you have to kind of really, uh, Learn from those mistakes and, and try to, uh, uh, you know, really be, um, as course cautious as you can, when you, when you're thinking about these risks, because, you know, especially if you're an SME, you know, one wrong decision could kind of break you.[00:23:11] And the management of cashflow is really obviously really important in any business. Um, yeah, so it is important to have an audience and, and, um, you know, that's why it's good to have Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook, and, um, you know, even ticked off these ads because that's what all our kids are all on at the moment.[00:23:30] So to stay relevant. Um, not that, um,[00:23:39] yeah. So, um, anyway, like I just think it's important to have an audience to engage with, to keep you current and relevant. [00:23:46] Germaine: [00:23:46] Well, and also would all these platforms as tools, not just, I think, again, there's this response where you say, you know, Oh, I'm on Facebook and the general response is stop procrastinating, stop wasting your time.[00:23:57] But in reality, All of these actually tools to look at where the market, you know, you use, you sell trendy products or donkeys designed, like what, what sells is, is trend and not necessarily, um, utility value when it comes to fashion because you know, a tee shirts, a t-shirt they're all the same. So what you're selling is what looks nice or what.[00:24:15] People think it's cool. And it's important that you keep your finger on the pulse. And one way of doing that is just monitoring social media, use it as a tool, use it to your advantage rather than necessarily wasting time on it and spending a lot of time doing the wrong things on social media. There's there's a lot of opportunity there.[00:25:17] Talk to me a little bit about how you, how you guys sell your product through on like, is it through a website or how do you, how do you sort of get out there from, um, in terms of donkeys design [00:25:29] Dion: [00:25:29] things? The items that you can buy straight from the website, like for example, my Aboriginal designed, um, masks, uh, so that they just sort of like saw, um, some of the street wear, um, a tie that I designed and, um, in our, all of our veterans.[00:25:44] Um, and then there's other. Just an inquiry, uh, kind of, um, portal on the website because a lot of the work that I do is for corporates and, um, medical services and schools, so school uniforms. So then, you know, yeah, that's more about, um, kind of connecting, uh, email exchange and then talking about design and, um, you know, whatever it is that they want specifically.[00:26:06] So there's a bit of time tuning forth, um, going back and forth and talking about that. So that can take some time, but you know, there is a opportunity to, to buy strategy. Not from the website. Just depends on what you know, that we're wanting. [00:26:20] Germaine: [00:26:20] Yeah. Yeah. And, um, We've talked about, I guess, a bunch of the really cool stuff you're doing.[00:26:27] I'm sure there were things along the way that were just, you know, you mentioned the yoga mats that were a bit of, sounds like a bit of a mistake. So I think you just had to hang on to them until the timing was right. But if you were a small business and you spent all your money on that, that could have, like you mentioned just wiped you out completely because you would have not, not had money to invest into a new, new, essentially a new skew or a new product, but any, any other things sort of come to mind where you sort of go.[00:26:52] Yeah, that was, that was a, that was a misstep. I shouldn't have done that or anything that nearly nearly sort of broke you. [00:26:58] Dion: [00:26:58] I think it's just the, um, that, that particular, when you're talking about the clothing industry can kill you. Like, you know, you could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on clothing and it just sits and doesn't make it.[00:27:09] So, um, you know, for a small business like mine and, um, obviously, um, You know, I I'm at a point now where I've done my other things with all my other businesses, they kind of done on quite well. So I've gone back to darkies and I'm really trying to develop that. So I will probably have to carry stock into the future because I'm developing the business and I want it to.[00:27:30] They the biggest, um, indigenous clothing company in Australia, that's always been my, my goal and I will do that. Um, so, uh, so I think, um, you just have to manage that and you have to be in a position where you, again, knowing what sells, you know, if you. That have to carry stock and don't um, so it's a bit of a mix and match, but, uh, that's probably been the biggest thing in the past that could have possibly broken me.[00:27:54] I remember one time having about $30,000 worth of stuff that was just my spare room for a year, you know? So I had to think about, well, what do I do with this? I had a like, kind of, you know, It was kind of just a write off a loss. So I had to kind of, um, you know, I did a competition or do different things where there were giveaways.[00:28:12] And so it still kind of look like, you know, when you're in business, you kind of, a lot of it's about, you know, the way you look, you know what I mean? Like. Um, uh, so I had to kind of make out, like, everything was good. [00:28:25] Germaine: [00:28:25] Yeah. Sort of, almost like that. Fake it till you make it. So, yeah. Optics, um, you look like you're doing fine in reality.[00:28:34] You're like, how do I get rid of $30,000 worth of excess stock that isn't moving? Let's just give away, you know, a thousand dollars of stock [00:28:45] Dion: [00:28:45] every time I send something. Yeah. But, um, anyway, this what I had to do again, it's about continuation, staying relevant and being connected. And, um, and I haven't done that a lot for a long time with, um, the darkies, um, kind of engaging more with my audience, some changing the business up a bit.[00:29:02] I'm trying to be more, um, uh, relevant to non-indigenous Australia as well. Um, because I think, you know, we're at a time now, we're at a point where non-indigenous people are comfortable, a lot more comfortable with wearing. Um, uh, Aboriginal clothing and different types of apparel. When I started, especially with my name, that is no way I'm not wearing that.[00:29:22] So, um, I think, you know, I feel like I've made a bit of a change in that whole. Um, kind of why you're thinking, and it's still a bit of a struggle for, for people that feel like they have to ask me, can I wear this, you know, this Aboriginal design church. And so of course, again, I've got to bring up at a desk and say, Oh yeah, I'm black come all the way at your right.[00:29:43] Exactly. [00:29:43] Germaine: [00:29:43] I was just thinking about that. Like, it's an interesting point you make because, um, we, we, you know, Get involved, like working with clients. There are, there are often clients who have either an Aboriginal indigenous sort of either getting funded through that need, need to have design, or there's always sort of things coming up that I don't, I don't know where a little Buddha turn to you to even ask, you know, I'll be allowed to do this.[00:30:07] I will be allowed to do that. But then thinking back and look at even fashion, I am. A hundred percent certain, there was a time where hoodies were perceived as you know, had a, had a certain image around them. Right? Yeah. Even sort of the street wear culture where now it's almost everyone wears that sort of clothing.[00:30:25] There was a time where, you know, you look like a thug. If you just wore a hoodie and, and. And there were connotations around all this stuff. Um, and you make a very good point, like, cause nowadays, like, you know, I don't know if this is the right terminology, but the black culture sort of look at African-American culture, um, and how that's just become so mainstream that hasn't happened with what you're doing yet.[00:30:49] Um, or, or the sort of the indigenous sort of. No, not yet, but there's this huge potential because you can draw on so many, like, so much, um, heritage and culture and, and imagery and design and stuff. That just looks really nice, but, but it just, hasn't sort of quite permeated yet. [00:31:09] Dion: [00:31:09] No, the uptake hasn't been as quick.[00:31:12] Um, uh, and people are a lot less or a lot more hesitant to, uh, um, you know, to, to do what they've done with African-American street, Marion culture and so forth. Um, there's more of a, I think, perception around a cooler element. Um, and we're talking about, um, black Americans as opposed to black Australians.[00:31:31] And that's really interesting to me because I also. I have African-American heritage. And my grandfather, um, was over here in the second world war and he was from Louisiana. So, um, um, uh, I kind of love that. Look and love. I mean, I would look like more, probably people say I look more African-American hijab originally.[00:31:48] Yeah.[00:31:52] I kind of, in my mind, there's a lot of Aboriginal people, um, that have the same heritage as men in Australia because of the second mobile. Um, so there's a lot of us with Aboriginal. Um, blood and African-American black, which is really, really interesting. And, and I've always kind of thought that my clothing does have, and the style of it does have a kind of, a little bit of that element, um, you know, especially the street well on, it's a kind of a combination of that, but I really would like more Australia and.[00:32:22] Non-indigenous um, to really kind of, um, you know, uh, celebrate more and, um, [00:32:28] Germaine: [00:32:28] sort of [00:32:30] Dion: [00:32:30] embrace Aboriginal impartial culture more as part of being Australian. So that's really my message. And that's what I said at one it's like, you don't have to be black to wear, to wear an Aboriginal plaid or an Aboriginal design.[00:32:42] You don't have to ask for permission to do that. You know, like I think it's, I think it's very respectful and, um, and I think it's respectful that they've asked. So they're obviously thinking. Can you about that? Cause I don't want to offend, but, um, you know, so I think we just need to keep continuing to have these conversations and say to people, well, yes it is.[00:33:00] It is okay to wear an Aboriginal flag on a ship. You know, if you're not Aboriginal, I wear an Australian flag. Exactly. Exactly. [00:33:09] Germaine: [00:33:09] People were, you know, the union Jack or the American flag and you, you never asked, you never think that, [00:33:16] Dion: [00:33:16] just do it. I mean, it is nice in a way, but, but also it kind of. In terms of a business it's inhibits my ability to make more money because of the there's these, um, obstacles that people have around, where can I actually wear that?[00:33:33] Should I purchase that? You know what I mean? So it can make it harder when you, when you're in a business. And I think. Sometimes I thought in hindsight, Oh, maybe I shouldn't have called it dark, but I was trying to prove a point. And by that point I was still been really, actually really successful in, in that business and micro been going for 10 years and I've established for other businesses in meantime.[00:33:56] So, um, it was a good kind of training ground. Um, and, and it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy at all. [00:34:01] Germaine: [00:34:01] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, fashions, it's a commodity, right? So I'm just trying to stand out because people, people appreciate good design, but there's only, there's only so much they will pay for, you know, a nice t-shirt.[00:34:12] They're not just going to spend infinite amounts of money on it. And it just makes it as a business case, quite difficult because you're competing with everyone like anyone and everyone, everyone from Kmart to. Louis Vuitton is a competitor. Um, even though you can sort of segment the market, um, because it's sort of commodity commodity items, um, before, before we move on from the whole, I guess, looking at how we can all, how it can become more mainstream, if for the lack of a better word, if you think part of it, I mean, look at black American culture, I feel like part of what's made it so, so pervasive is that, is that, um, It's just so they have these ambassadors almost, right.[00:34:53] Like, I can't think of a single sport where there aren't, you know, um, African-Americans who are at the top, whether or people who look like African-Americans, you know? Um, so I feel like that's sort of helped and there's hip hop and music that, again, like the, the, the, the most Ozzy person, um, Would, you know, headbang to like Kanye West and, and there's a certain level of coolness to, to it.[00:35:20] Have you thought about sort of, um, I guess tapping indigenous sort of celebrities, for lack of a better word on the shoulder and sort of group teaming up with them to try and, um, push, push that sort of similar. [00:35:34] Dion: [00:35:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have, uh, uh, yeah. Going back to, um, I'm getting way there. But some, when I was sending a lot of, I've always kind of given, um, stuff out to promote the label.[00:35:46] So I always did use and always have used, um, you know, Aboriginal people with high, um, high profiles, uh, some of the politicians or sporting people or, you know, actors or, um, uh, uh, have you had a black comedy? The show black comedy on the ABC. [00:36:03] Germaine: [00:36:03] No, right. [00:36:05] Dion: [00:36:05] It's a, it's a, an Aboriginal comedy show. That's a really successful.[00:36:10] Now about 10 years ago, one of the actors in their war, um, uh, a few of my diet designs are three or four weeks in a row. So, you know, like I've kind of done it, you know, uh, I've been quite strategic about, about that. And that was kind of what I was really only had. Dark is not real. I was trying to always.[00:36:27] You're thinking of ways to get into that. I don't kind of really feel like I have to do that anymore, even though there's lots of other indigenous clothing labels out there that actually passed anything that I've ever done and, um, you know, are a lot more popular, but I kind of feel like establishing myself as a business person talk is going around for a decade.[00:36:43] Now I've got some runs on the board and I don't really feel the need to have to do that. But in saying that, um, uh, I, I probably will start reaching out to a few, a few high profile people, um, to, to take it. Some pigs and get it there. And, um, uh, non-indigenous Australians too. Cause that's what I would really like to see more people, um, that aren't necessarily just Aboriginal charsadda, um, people wearing my designs.[00:37:09] Yeah, [00:37:09] Germaine: [00:37:09] yeah, yeah, no, I mean, you know, w when you're looking to relaunch and sort of tapping into that, that sort of makes sense. Um, [00:37:17] Dion: [00:37:17] Looking [00:37:17] Germaine: [00:37:17] at like the fact that you've got a number of businesses, um, before we wrap up, I'd be interested to hear about how you think, think of, think of business as a whole in that, like, I, I look at business as, again, like a tool as a vehicle, whether it's to, um, make, you know, to create change, um, to make, to normalize things, to make a message heard.[00:37:39] Um, it sounds to me. Like you sort of look at business in this, in a similar vein and you just, you know, have different businesses that sort of cater to different things, but, um, is that sort of how you look at business as just this one big thing that you can create and shut down and open and ramp up and all that as you, as you please, is that sort of how you look at it?[00:38:02] Dion: [00:38:02] Yeah, I kind of feel like there's because I'm quite, um, a lateral thinker and quite creative. So when I see an opportunity and a gap in the market, then I think, um, there may be an opportunity to create something or to develop something. Then, then, then I do, um, uh, I think for a while there was a bit crazy, cause I was, I'll do this and I'll do that and I'll do this and I'll do that.[00:38:23] So I wouldn't, I wouldn't advise people. So do that because then you spread yourself too thin at a point now where I've kind of brought people on board so that I can rely and trust them enough to do what they need to do with respect to it, all of the businesses. And I'll do my part and that's why they're still developing.[00:38:40] And none of mothers have filed. Um, But yeah, I kind of feel like I like the fact that it can, I can help people through that through my business, uh, businesses and, um, create opportunities for employment for people that I like. Um, for other Aboriginal people, um, have the opportunity to sponsor sporting clubs and things like that.[00:39:03] Um, and I liked the way that, you know, in business, color's not such yeah, a big thing because when, you know, when you're a business and you want to help people. When, you know, there's a community, there's a sense of community that you, that refined. Um, you know, say for example, working as a public servant, um, you know, it's exciting, it's challenging.[00:39:22] It's bloody hard, but it's rewarding too. And there's a real sense of respect. And I think I'm doing it to also to change perceptions. Um, you know, non-indigenous people in the wider community have had about Aboriginal and tarsal other people in the past, um, because I am successful and I'm creating, you know, businesses and an opportunity is for people I'm still helping people.[00:39:46] Um, and, and in all of my businesses, this, you know, there is a component there where I'm getting back to the Aboriginal community, bringing black and white people together to work on projects and to. And to do things together. And I think that that's a big part of what I like about business, as well as that, you know, we all have to work together.[00:40:03] Um, you know, we should work together. Do that, always do that, but I think. Business creates opportunities for different, very different people from very different backgrounds and costs to come together. [00:40:14] Germaine: [00:40:14] That's something we sort of want to celebrate as like at Futuretheory and through the podcast and through what we're trying to do is celebrating the fact that one, like you said, it's this common thread that can tie anyone and everyone together.[00:40:27] Like, um, just the other day I saw that, uh, Stripe, which is a payment processor. I don't know if you've heard of them. They're a multi-billion dollar company. Purchased a Nigerian startup for, I think it was the biggest acquisition by Stripe today, a couple of hundred million dollars. Right. And I think, I think it was something like that.[00:40:44] Um, and you know, what impressed me there was that this, you know, huge multinational payment processor has gone to Africa and purchased a company, um, based out of Nigeria. Now, I can't think of any other instance, apart from sport where. The, you know, that can happen where, where this giant we'll go in and pick up this other thing.[00:41:07] Um, so, you know, business has just this way of w what we would say is like equalizing right. Of [00:41:14] Dion: [00:41:14] sort of [00:41:15] Germaine: [00:41:15] making an even playing field for everyone involved. [00:41:18] Dion: [00:41:18] Yes. Yeah. It's definitely, there is that element to business. And that's, I think another thing that. Another thing that I, that I like about it. Yeah.[00:41:25] Germaine: [00:41:25] Yeah. And, and another thing I picked up on was, um, it sounds like you do feel, and I get this, I have this feeling as well of like, you almost represent a whole. Society like a whole community, a whole whole sort of, kind of, uh, hope people. Um, where, like, when I talk to people, I'm like, dude, you know, you're representing Sri Lankans, like are through like an Australian, but yeah, people are going to, people are going to blame straight line guy.[00:41:49] If you, if you mess up, if you, if you know, if you don't deliver on time, they're going to be like, Oh man, Sri Lankans, like don't, don't work with them. Um, do you know, you can get a bit of that feeling, just being. You know, a minority in, in these when you go into the business world. [00:42:05] Dion: [00:42:05] Yeah. Yeah. It definitely, I think, um, especially when I was starting out, because I kind of never really had the size of my father who would already be sold his business, uh, many years before.[00:42:16] Um, I didn't kind of really have much context or frame of reference or, um, know anybody to talk to about it. And, uh, there was a sense of this. Okay. Well, um, and be able to tell what's he doing during this. Well, what's Deon doing and, you know, um, um, and especially that I ended up having multiple businesses that said, what's he doing now?[00:42:34] But some, but yeah, there's kind of a sense of, I think having to represent and, um, and to succeed and sometimes that's, uh, can be hard and can make it harder. And it can make the journey sometimes a bit more lonely. Um, and the more success you get them all hit, you get to like learn to become, you know, I used to be really, I am still sensitive in nature these days, it takes something pretty bad for me to, for it to really affect me.[00:43:03] You know what I mean? So, um, you can become a lot more resilient and you need to have that when you're, when you're in business. And, and even when you're not that successful. So you're not, I mean, you're like, you have to just keep going if you want to want to succeed. But when that success comes, it's, it's kind of like tall poppy syndrome as well.[00:43:21] And, um, but yeah, so I, but I do feel like I'm representing and I do feel like it's given me the opportunity to. Um, um, going back to my roots as well and learned more about my Aboriginal intertia the culture, especially when I'm talking about doc is because, um, you know, it's so centered around, um, my culture and, and also thinking about in the future, you know, some sort of collaboration and.[00:43:44] Like an American label too, to kind of bring that element in. And that's a guy and I was trying to be a little bit different, have a bit of an edge I've other, um, you know, other businesses. And when I'm talking about my label, that's something that I think I wouldn't mind doing an all side kind of. Uh, uh, an Island influenced as I have, um, Olander heritage as well.[00:44:04] So, um, Charlestown heritage middle-size South sea Islander heritage, because my father is a disseminator of the slides that were brought over from the black, black wedding days, you know, um, uh, It's just Ryan doesn't really know much about, there's a part of that history that people's, you know, white settlers would go in trouble, sees the, uh, and you know, and, um, take people, just take people from the islands, from the Solomon Islands, from, um, from.[00:44:31] Hebrides, you know what I mean? And, um, so a lot of Aboriginal people have that heritage heritage as well, but I'd like to tap into that my particular autism in 10 hours, which is part of Ben Amati, um, which the French colonized and that's where my night is to bounce, not spelled. Right. But it's French, you know, derived, um, French derivation.[00:44:52] So, um, I wouldn't mind kind of implementing. That kind of some Islander feel to some of the elements of design when I'm talking about my label as well. But yeah. So there's lots, lots of people that I feel like I represent, so [00:45:07] Germaine: [00:45:07] yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, and it can feel like a bit of a bit of a wait sometimes, but, um, at the same time, you know, it's, it's also not, not the worst thing to have a bit, a bit of pressure to sort of push you forward.[00:45:19] But, um, before we wrap up, I just wanted to touch on that sort of thing that you mentioned about, you know, you're still a sensitive person, but you can take a few more hits and I think, yeah. For anyone listening. I think what I've learned is that it's important to, to work on yourself and sort of your mindset and how you look at things and how you handle things too.[00:45:37] The best way I can explain it is to maintain a stable baseline emotion as possible so that, you know, whether you succeed or you fail that baseline, doesn't sort of cause, cause the last thing you want is this baseline. That's just bumping between good and bad, right? Because in a, in a day in business, you can go through.[00:45:56] Literally everything let alone a year in business or 10 years in business. Um, so it's just maintaining that stable, especially when you've got people working for you, you know, they shouldn't, they shouldn't get, you know, you shouldn't get angry at them because of something that happened to you in the morning that they had nothing to do with, or, um, so you need to sort of just work on, I guess, that emotional side and really look into yourself and your mental sort of mindset as well.[00:46:22] Dion: [00:46:22] Yeah, I think that's a good point. Like you do it is because, you know, it's so busy when you're, when you're making and generating your own money. There's no time for nonsense. There's no time to fat ass around, you know, and, um, and welling on things that you just need to, to deal with things really, uh, swiftly, practically, and really sensibly.[00:46:43] And sometimes that's hard, you know, because there is pressure, you have to pay people and you have to do this. You've got bills. You've got no place. So B events to be at and, um, you know, uh, talks to give a lot of that. And so I feel like sometimes, you know, if you allow that to kind of get to you, then, you know, it can really affect your mental health and your.[00:47:03] Physical health. I think you need the balance in life. You need to be able to take time out. Um, and when you go into business to do that sensibly, say, I would never say to anybody, put your job and go and work. You know what I mean? Like work and then, you know, see how your business guide it's like, um, don't give up your day.[00:47:21] Um, Just do it as a hobby possibly at first and then stiffen, if you've got investors or if you come from money, that's different. Um, you know, cause at the end of the day, you know, like it's all about how you can manage and how you can. Build and develop your life or your business, whatever that might be, um, without, and still being able to pay the bills, you know?[00:47:42] So, um, I think you just have to have a lot of common sense as well around and, and, you know, when you're your business, Do you offer this, you know, when you have a business, not for me, a lot of mothers I'm center of that, you on the face of it on the, you know what I mean? Like people, when they see it as that out to me.[00:47:58] And so, um, so you have to look after yourself. Um, and, and sometimes that's hard, you know, I'm getting held down and I'm fat.[00:48:17] And I like it. I think it's important to it. The look well to book after your family, you know, I mean, that's very important. Um, you know, um, that's why I'm down there because at the moment it's still working about like, I think like mix it up a bit and make sure you're able to, um, uh, remember what are you working for?[00:48:36] You know, the things in your life that are important, which is your health, which are your loved ones, your children, your wife, or your husband, whatever, you know what I mean? Like just having a bit of a. Kind of, um, you know, like you said, a baseline, a really sensible, a balanced outlook on life, but actually practice that as well.[00:48:57] You know, because sometimes people I've seen people in business and they've worked themselves to death. [00:49:03] Germaine: [00:49:03] Yeah. Forgetting, forgetting to spend time with the family. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's an [00:49:09] Dion: [00:49:09] awful bit of a balance, you know, it's, it's good to be rich, but not good being rich if you're dead [00:49:15] Germaine: [00:49:15] exactly or rich, if you're estranged from your family, because you know, they don't know who you are.[00:49:24] Dion: [00:49:24] So that's really important. That's really important to you. Um, so many different factors that you have to think about, um, when you're, when you're in business and, uh, you have to be smart and good businesses. It's people are smart because you have to be smart. You have to think smart. You have to be strategic.[00:49:44] Um, otherwise it's just, it doesn't work [00:49:47] Germaine: [00:49:47] well. Ultimately I think it all comes down to execution. That's how I look at it. It's not so much, it's not so much anything else, but how you decide to do what you do and how you decide to do to, you know, say no to certain things it's about, and that's why you gotta be smart.[00:50:02] Cause it's all in. What you do with what you're given, um, you know, just quickly going back to you, getting to, um, act Australian of the year, it was all like, again, there are heaps of people who win awards, who don't, who aren't able to, or who don't do the right things with it, or don't do things that, that get them anywhere.[00:50:21] Like, you know, I know heaps of people who've won awards and X, Y, and Zed, and. They just, it just, that was it. Like it was received, it was done, done deal. So it's all execution at the end of the day. Um, before we, before we roll into the top 12, where can people find out more about, um, yourself and your, your businesses and connect with you?[00:50:42] Dion: [00:50:42] So I've got to numb, like I said, five different businesses and, um, so, you know, It just Google doc docs or Google they're out, or, um, you know, just go to any of the, any of the websites or. Like, you know, when you're like anybody, when you're trying to have a bit of a squeeze at someone, you just Google them these days, everyone just does it that way.[00:51:02] So, and then everything comes up. Yeah.[00:51:08] Before it was like, I'll get you a www dot. Now people just stalk each other on site. [00:51:16] Germaine: [00:51:16] Exactly. [00:51:19] Dion: [00:51:19] Yeah, no, one's, everyone's kind of like out there, you know, you can't get away from it. So, um, that's the kind of the easiest way to talk about the is probably the one that, you know, you'll find me what I do and that's, I mean, I don't even know.[00:51:34] How did you find me? [00:51:36] Germaine: [00:51:36] Hey, Hayden found you, Hayden found you, so, um, you'll have to ask Hayden. [00:51:42] Dion: [00:51:42] Yeah, it's funny like that. But, um, these types of, um, yarns, these types of things that I do, it's, it's weird that, you know, people check it out like, and they might not even be an insult. Even sometimes that people name it's just like they've typed in indigenous entrepreneur.[00:51:56] And then I come up, you know what I mean? Um, it's kind of by chance a lot of the time, but I think, you know, the more things you do, um, like even like this, if you give up. Well, your lawn or something, we're doing this interview somewhere, you know? So it's kind of very easy for people to find people these days.[00:52:14] Germaine: [00:52:14] Yeah. Perfect. Just, just Google Dion, you'll find out, um, or about all, about his businesses and, and what he's doing. Um, are you ready for the top 12? [00:52:23] Dion: [00:52:23] Yeah. [00:52:24] Germaine: [00:52:24] Okay. Let's roll into it. So, um, top three books or podcasts that you recommend. [00:52:29] Dion: [00:52:29] The Bible.[00:52:33] I actually don't read Milly many. Um, I don't read a lot, so the truth and I don't listen to too many podcasts, so I can't really give you that many ads, but number one, two, and three, read the Bible. You'll get somewhere like that. Written that. [00:52:48] Germaine: [00:52:48] Yeah. Have you read the Bible yourself or do you read the Bible?[00:52:51] Dion: [00:52:51] Yeah, first thing I do when I get up. Wow. [00:52:56] Germaine: [00:52:56] I don't know why. I'm why I'm surprised. I shouldn't be surprised, but, um, that's I can tell you this much. No one else has given that answer before. So,[00:53:09] Dion: [00:53:09] um, I, it should be a little more success too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. [00:53:15] Germaine: [00:53:15] Love it. That's that's like a whole other podcast episode that I'd love to have a conversation with you about sometime top three software tools that you can use. [00:53:23] Dion: [00:53:23] Oh, I D I can't live there. I'll use it with software or hardware. My phone, my laptop, my phone, my laptop.[00:53:36] Germaine: [00:53:36] What apps do you sort of rely on? What do you use for emails? [00:53:40] Dion: [00:53:40] It's not a good thing, but you know, because I've got so much going on, I have to you on my phone, I'm constantly on my phone, which is, like I said, It's not, not good. Sometimes I can find that what, um, you know, we have so much access to technology and I'm always just scrolling through and checking my emails and, um, and I have my laptop everywhere, but I mean, that's a part of my life and part of my business.[00:54:01] And that's what allows me to have the flexibility to work from wherever and still make money. Um, so, you know, uh, and be a successful business person. I need to be able to do that. So, um, but I do need to switch off and, uh, Yeah. [00:54:15] Germaine: [00:54:15] Yeah. It's a, it's a fine balance at the end of the day, when you've got, when you've got a number of businesses, like they, they, they also require attention.[00:54:23] You gotta look at it. Um, top three mantras, you try to live by anything. You sort of tell yourself. [00:54:29] Dion: [00:54:29] Yeah. Yeah. I just thought, well, going back to, um, My faith. I have, um, a couple of verses my favorite verses from the Bible. Um, some, um, that is seven Fords. Delight yourself also in the Lord and he shall give you the desires one.[00:54:44] So that's something that's, um, you know, I, I meditate on, on quite a lot. Okay. Lots of scriptures that I meditate on. And, um, that's, like I said, it's what, um, really, really helps me to get through. You know, they say, you know, when you're reading the Bible, doesn't, you're not really actually read the Bible, but Bob, where you chase is something or a passage or scripture art example or something, a strategy for everything in life in the Bible.[00:55:11] So that's what I use to get me through. [00:55:13] Germaine: [00:55:13] Yeah. Yep. Love it. Love it. Um, top three people you follow or study and why? [00:55:23] Dion: [00:55:23] Um, top three people, that's a hard one. Um,[00:55:30] there's not really any body in particular. I kind of liked to watch, um, different politicians. I like to watch. Um, different, different business people. Um, I like to watch, um, different sports people and I like to watch just people in general, like people say for example, that, um, I have seen kind of grow as business people through the entrepreneurial program that I, that I run, because I think that, um, you know, people have been my business for 30 years.[00:56:04] You know what I mean? Like I'm working. It really closely intensely with people and that's kind of carried over into business. And I just, I kind of am quite interested in people in general. Um, uh, because I. Kind of want to help where I can, but I think it's just nice to see people, um, because you can learn from all sorts of different people and they don't have to be, you know, billionaires or amazing successful people.[00:56:29] They can just be everyday people. And I find, um, I do some mentoring with young Aboriginal public servants, and I learned a lot from them. Um, I do lots of talks at schools and use online a lot from them because they kind of are so open, uh, a lot of them anyway. And, um, I think just in terms of, again, staying relevant and nine what's happening, um, to people in different lives and different kinds of, um, sectors of the community, our youth is something that we don't really kind of look at enough.[00:57:04] Um, and I think we need to do more because they are our future, you know, I think we'll need to encourage them, but, but also we need to be able to learn from them. And like I said, I learned so much from, and I love spending time with young, younger people. Um, Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, like, even, like I said, I'm only 57 young for me is someone that's 30, you know?[00:57:25] Germaine: [00:57:25] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I do a similar thing where I, um, follow sort of younger people, um, close, closer to me in age still, but in their, in their twenties, in their twenties, um, who like, for me, it's not, again, they're not millionaires. They don't even have like a crazy following or anything like that, but it's just.[00:57:45] Looking at how they do what they do to, you know, some of them have like a group of, you know, um, 300 people that they can always talk to on social media that, that respond to them, that engage with them. And to me, that's a very powerful thing. Like obviously this young person has worked out what it is that their followers and their friends and people they want to communicate with are looking for and, and are giving them that, that thing.[00:58:10] So, um, I think this is, this is a good reminder that you don't need to follow people who are successful and, and, you know, multimillionaires a billion as, because. Like again, I learned from my staff as much as they learn from me. Um, I learned from every client, um, as, as much as, you know, we help them in their loan from us.[00:58:30] Um, so I think this has been an awesome reminder that, um, there's, there's learnable, teachable moments. There's things happening all around you that you can learn from every day. Yeah. [00:58:40] Dion: [00:58:40] And if you surround yourself with people that I like to surround myself with people that. Um, and that's something I'm not, I'm going to business in a lot, because especially when I've done creating a business, I've not really known a lot about that industry.[00:58:52] So you end up being and engaging people that do. And so you learn from them and you learn more about the business and yeah, that's kind of a big part of, um, what I, what I do on a daily basis I land from, cause I'm not a big C, so I'd rather see things and learn things in a practical way. I think it's quite cultural too, because we never had.[00:59:14] Like a written kind of [00:59:18] Germaine: [00:59:18] text to read from and things like that. Yeah, yeah, [00:59:21] Dion: [00:59:21] yeah. [00:59:22] Germaine: [00:59:22] You were shown and then you learned from, from the actions of doing and learning that way. [00:59:28] Dion: [00:59:28] Yeah. [00:59:30] Germaine: [00:59:30] That passed on. Yeah, yeah, [00:59:33] Dion: [00:59:33] yeah, [00:59:34] Germaine: [00:59:34] yeah. Yeah. This has been an awesome conversation with you, Dion. Thank you for it. [00:59:40] Dion: [00:59:40] Thank you for your time.[00:59:41] Nice to meet you and stay [00:59:42] Germaine: [00:59:42] in touch. Likewise. Thanks.
Thursday Dec 03, 2020
Thursday Dec 03, 2020
On this episode of the podcast, we chat with the founder of Redboat animation studios and Brivvio, Adrian King. Adrian is a veteran of the animation industry who started his first business nearly 20 years ago after he became disenfranchised with not receiving the full fruits of his labour. His flagship company, Redboat, primarily works with government agencies and large businesses to create video content that helps explain complex concepts to the general public. Almost three years ago, however, Adrian noticed that many of his customers wanted simple brand elements in their videos and had to go to large animations studios to do so. After identifying this market gap, he began working on creating an iPhone application (Brivvio) that could help users, without technical experience, to create branded videos that looked professional.
Whilst discussing his professional journey, Adrian addresses the lack of security many business owners face compared to regular employees and how this is the price people must pay to ‘be their own boss’.Additionally, Adrian touches on the differences between starting his first small business versus starting his new and much more ambitious venture. Specifically, he discusses how founding Brivvio has required him to seek out capital from outside investors and guidance from the various accelerator programs in order to scale the business up rapidly. With this being said, one through-line Adrian has ensured all his businesses have is being purpose-driven. Throughout the episode, he highlights how his commitment to running purpose-led companies has helped him weed out bad clients, communicate authenticity to prospective customers, and ultimately achieve long-term viability.
What we talk about
Sacrificing stability in order to be your own boss
Running a startup vs a small business
The importance of being purpose-led
Links from this episode
https://www.redboat.com.au/ (Redbot’s website)
https://www.brivvio.com/ (Brivvio’s website)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianking/ (Adrian on LinkedIn)
Find us elsewhere
https://futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe Website)
https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)
https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors
[00:00:52] Germaine: [00:00:52] Hello, Future Tribe. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. On this episode, I've got Adrian King from two different businesses. Actually tell us a little bit about what you do, Adrian. [00:01:56] Adrian: [00:01:56] Hey, Germaine. Uh, yeah, look, uh, I've got two businesses, which is, seems like a crazy thing to do, but, uh, you know, one, one of them is very new and one of them's I've been there for about 20 plus years and you know, the one I've been.[00:02:06] Doing for most of my career has been animation and video production, more focused on the animation. And, uh, it's kind of led to the, the new business, which is really, really exciting. So the first one's called bread boats, which is the animation business, and we do a lot of animation for government, for technology, for science explaining tricky, complicated subject matter.[00:02:27] Sometimes very, uh, abstract ideas or complex ideas and distilling them down into really condense, smart, concise messages that can be transmitted to huge audiences in an animated format. And so I've had this career 20 plus years in video. And animation production. And what happened was it led to this new business because I had a client come to me and say, Hey, can you put all this sort of animated intro bottle onto our videos for us?[00:02:57] And we're going to make 30 videos every single week. And they're just a single shot of about 90 seconds. And we animated logo at the beginning and a call to action at the end and some branding on them. And I thought to myself, wow. That's really great bread and butter. I'm just going to make a killing out of doing this is great.[00:03:15] Just like, but then it's going to be really boring, right? Somebody is going to be sitting down, it's working. I'm going to have one of my team members working on this stuff all week, punching out the stuff, and it's going to be how I've got to be able to automate this. Right. It's got to be something that I can find a way to make this simpler and faster.[00:03:31] And that set me off on this path, which has now become revealed, which is a separate business. And, and that's, uh, the one that I'm kind of working pretty hard to promote at the moment, too. [00:03:41] Germaine: [00:03:41] Yeah, right. So red boat is a bit more of an established, um, business. And then you've got Brivvio how old is Brivvio?[00:03:48] Adrian: [00:03:48] About a year and a half, but we only really released, uh, on the app store in February, on Valentine's day, this year. [00:03:56] Germaine: [00:03:56] So Breo is, uh, an iPhone or an iOS app at the moment. Isn't it? [00:04:00] Adrian: [00:04:00] Yeah. So Brivvio is an app and a, uh, it's kind of growing into a bit more of a platform, but at the moment you, you you'd download the app on the iPhone.[00:04:08] And what it does is it enables anyone with zero training, zero skills. There are no how or anything like that. Pretty much anyone can do it to create branded and captioned videos really, really fast and really easily. So. Puts your tops and tail was you with your branding on it and add captions across the bottom.[00:04:29] Germaine: [00:04:29] And then where does the footage come from? Is that, can you shoot, just shoot that on your iPhone? Or can you bring in different bits and pieces of footage or [00:04:37] Adrian: [00:04:37] a mix? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you can film within Brivvio so you can film a single shot. Let's say you want to do a 62nd or two minute video on your phone.[00:04:47] You film it in Brivvio or you can import a video that you've created elsewhere. [00:04:51] Germaine: [00:04:51] Right. And we were sort of really jumping into the, to the meat of the episode already. But tell me a bit about how you, like, did you get a team together to build the app? I know maybe the craziest sort of dropped off a little bit now, but, um, a few years ago everyone wanted an app for everything and you know, there's different qualities of.[00:05:11] Apps like there's and there's different types of apps. There's apps that you can download from an iOS store, but then there's, what's essentially a web app that you just use through a window on your phone. Tell me a little bit about how you put it together and who you use. [00:05:25] Adrian: [00:05:25] Yeah. Great question. Germane, because it was an Epic journey to get there.[00:05:28] Like we were really spent a year and a half developing this and I have no idea how hard that was going to be to, you know, to do the development. Bit of technical background in my skillset as one of the creative and stuff with the animation. But, um, yeah, certainly a journey and we tried several different technologies to make it work, including progressive web apps and, you know, Mo like multi-platform, but we ended up having to rebuild the technology from scratch in order to make it work, um, because, uh, it requires a lot of heavy video processing.[00:06:00] And so. Yeah. Some of, some of the initial attempts once a good, how it all started was I had this idea because this client said to me, we want to do this. I said, well, maybe I can automate this. And I had a bit of conversation with them. They said, yeah, that'd be great. If we could just kind of like upload the video and it just comes back to us.[00:06:15] That'd be great and thought, right, I'm going to make this systematized. And because I'm sure other people are going to want this. And so I built a prototype. I mocked it up. I did a little bit of basic. Prototyping, you know, actually the first thing I did was I built, I did the lean startup method.[00:06:33] Everybody's probably heard of the lean startup, if you haven't much definitely a book you should read. And so I did the lean stuff. I built a web form and I said, and it kind of mimicked the process of how to like field. So upload video here, putting your title, uh, uh, putting colors, choose a background and that kind of thing.[00:06:51] And it didn't really do anything. It just pretended to be the process of putting, and I showed a few people, I said, yeah, great. I can use this. And so that was kind of my first sort of validation. So then I've built a proper prototype and brought a developer on to help with that. And we built this very, very rough prototype and I realized, you know, I probably need to get some funding to develop this properly.[00:07:14] So. I started on that path. And I then met, uh, the Canberra innovation network and, uh, heard about the Griffin Accelerator. And so I applied to be to get on to that because they, they sort of mentor the people that get, uh, get into the accelerated program and then put a bit of funding into it. And. Uh, and I got in, we had to pitch it's a bit like shark tank except friendly.[00:07:38] And this is like 20 investors and mentors there. And I had to pitch for five minutes in front of them, answer all their questions and go, that was nerve wracking, but really worthwhile. And then I got in and so I spent like three to four months in an intensive incubator space or accelerator program.[00:07:55] Validating. The, this was a viable product and building the first expanding on the first prototype. [00:08:02] Germaine: [00:08:02] Yeah. Right, right. Wow. Let, let's rewind a little bit. Um, give me an idea of first of all, cause I've got a bunch of questions that I've just noted down. Um, but the, the first one is. How, how old are you if you don't mind me asking you've had a business for 20 years.[00:08:17] So I would assume you're at least 21, but how old are you? [00:08:21] Adrian: [00:08:21] Yeah, I am at least 21 enough to know better and young enough to not really care that much. [00:08:30] Germaine: [00:08:30] So, so you got into, did you start a business as soon as you left sort of traditional education? [00:08:37] Adrian: [00:08:37] No. I look up go way back. I grew up in the UK and although I've got family, the origin here in Australia, I was born in the UK and know family from both sides and do dual citizenship.[00:08:49] And I did uni in Leicester in the UK. And, uh, I was always fascinated by tech and design that kind of. Crossover in that. And I ended up getting a job in London, doing animation for computer games, which was really the dream job for a kind of. Early twenties, young guy, right. It was just back then. It was fantastic.[00:09:13] So, but then I kind of got a bit tired after a couple of years of doing that and, um, of London really, I was just it's England. And so, you know, I've been to Australia before and I knew I got family out here. I was like, I want to go and live in Australia for awhile. And so I moved out here, immigrated here and, um, did a bit of traveling on the way and ended up in a job out here.[00:09:32] So. It was two years of working in London, two years of working in Sydney, in post-production for TV and film. And then I. Then I set up my first business and it was like, ah, you know, what really set it off was I was always maybe a bit arrogant or ambitious. I just was like, I can do better than my employees.[00:09:53] And the way they're treating me is terrible. And I always thought, this is not the way it should work. Uh, I work, I found out how much money they were making from this project we were doing. And we were all working crazy hours and I was just like, no, that's not fair. So I went out and I set up that it was.[00:10:10] Back then nobody was really doing this kind of stuff and I just went right. I'm just, yeah. Am I allowed to swear? [00:10:15] Germaine: [00:10:15] Yeah, we'll just bleep it out. It's all good. [00:10:19] Adrian: [00:10:19] All right. So, uh, I just went and set up an ABN and started and I just started asking people, Hey, do you want some animation done for your TV thing or whatever it is, and, and started building up a client base.[00:10:31] And I was really lucky because I had a part-time job teaching animation. So [00:10:36] Germaine: [00:10:36] you're still in Sydney [00:10:37] Adrian: [00:10:37] at this point. This was back in Sydney. Yeah. Because I lived there for 18 years and so I had this part-time job and that was what helped me get started in my own business. Yeah. That, and then it took off and it was like, okay, I can't keep the part-time job now.[00:10:52] I just have to focus on my business. [00:10:54] Germaine: [00:10:54] Yeah. I mean, that's. That's a lovely way to do it as well. Right. Have a bit of, um, and, and, you know, I guess a few points to touch on there first it's I don't think it's arrogant to think that you can do it. You can do a better job. It's sort of what drives everyone to do.[00:11:08] I think all companies exist because you feel like you can do a better job. And, and, um, I, I talk about this a lot where some people sort of put their hand up because I think business exists to serve. And ultimately whoever serves. Better we'll we'll win. And some people might put their head up and go, no business exists to make money.[00:11:26] And you know, it doesn't matter how you make money. That's all that matters is that you make money. But I would argue that it sounds to me like you wanted to create a better way of doing something and. There's a reason that you would win out or, or you'd continue to like, you've, you've been around for 20 plus years in the business, and there's a reason why people would pick you over and over again.[00:11:47] And that is, that is because you provide value versus sort of necessarily just, you know, some other sort of, I guess, aspect or element to what you do. And then as an extension of that as well. Um, you talked about the fact that you essentially used a job to fund your ultimate goal and what you wanted to do, which I just think.[00:12:06] You shouldn't, it shouldn't be neglected. I think nowadays there's a bit of a culture of dump it all, you know, just, just go into your business tech, take all the loans that you can. And, um, and, and, you know, people talk about, Oh, in my first few years I was, I had five credit cards and I was maxing each of them out.[00:12:21] But there's something to be said for, for actually, you know, it's more sustainable to take money from one thing and pumping into what what's your, what your real passion is. Is that how you were thinking about it at that time? Was I'm just going to do this. Until I can move into this full time. [00:12:36] Adrian: [00:12:36] I look, I think my idea about why I set up my own business and why I was doing it changed and it evolved over time.[00:12:45] I think when I first started in it, I think it was partly about the money. It was like, well, I know I'm good at this job. And I enjoy doing it. So why don't I set up a business where I kind of make more money, basically doing the same thing and the challenge. I think those are the reasons why a lot of people go into business for themselves is.[00:13:06] Is they're good at what they do. And so, and they wanted kind of more, have more control over their own time and not be their own boss. And that was kind of partly it, I didn't really like working for other people. I just wanted to be my own boss and have more flexibility, but it actually turned into a situation where, and this is what happens for most people who go into business for themselves is you own your own job.[00:13:25] You still have a job, right? So you don't have an exit plan. You don't have a way out. And that was something I started to realize after a couple of years. And I realized, you know, I I'm still doing the same stuff. Uh, I just have a bit more flexibility with my time, but then, you know, that's kind of got a downside too, because I kinda ended up working in the evenings and gets really busy and stuff.[00:13:49] And you know, what, if I. If there's no work on then and no clients come in the door, then, Hey, I can't go on holiday because I don't have money yet. So it changes the dynamic. And I think what a lot of people don't think about when they go into businesses, what's the long-term vision, you know, with a, with a job, you've got a salary and at least it used to be anyway, on these days, it might be a bit different because.[00:14:12] Jobs are not as secure as they used to be, but the way it used to be as you have a job and that's your security set, whereas people get into business, there's less security, but you have a goal which is to build a business out, to bring on investors, to sell the business much, like you would build a property and sell that, and then you retire.[00:14:32] And so that, so after a couple of years of two or three years, I think I started to get that picture of, yeah. I kind of need to think of rethink how I'm doing business. And, and I brought on a close friend at the time who, uh, to become a business partner and we, we sort of changed the structure of the business.[00:14:48] We built it up and we did really, really well for five years and doubled our turnover every single year. For five years straight, which was pretty impressive from a garage thing. We didn't have any investors, no capital investment. And then we just totally bootstrapped the business. Um, but we did the classic thing, which is to overcapitalize and sort of over diversify too quickly and had overheads that weren't sustainable and, and in there was a downturn in the market and things.[00:15:17] Got really competitive. And then we had to sort of propose the business down. And so I scaled it back again. He went off to go and do something else and I scaled it back to what I was doing before and had to rethink the business completely. And then, and I've read this amazing book back then called, uh, what was it called?[00:15:36] The network economy or something like that by. Uh, I always forget the gods and I think he's a smart guy started like a wired magazine, I think anyway. So basically the concept was that the future of business is networked businesses, not these monolithic businesses, that own lots of staff and have big overheads.[00:15:58] The future is flexible businesses that cooperate and collaborate and that picture just stuck in my mind. And so I reformatted the animation business too. To be really low overhead, really flexible, really agile. And it let me travel that me live up in the Northern rivers for a couple of years, travel for three years whilst I kept this business going.[00:16:19] I traveled all over new South Wales and act how sitting and traveling and exploring a lot of Australia. And, um, Yeah, that was really interesting having this lean agile business model. But the problem with that, it was not as scalable. Yeah. So there's, there's all these different ways you can approach business.[00:16:39] But the thing that most people forget is to what's the end game, where are you going to go? What do you want to get out of this? Where you want to be in 10 years, five years, 10 years time. Do you want to build it [00:16:48] Germaine: [00:16:48] the way I always. Put it is, you know, you would never leave your house without knowing your destination.[00:16:55] I can't think of an instance where, where anyone could actually say no. That's exactly, exactly what I would do. And businesses are the same thing. But instead of thinking, you know, where am I going in the next 10 minutes? You've got to think, where am I going in 10 years time? And how can I sort of. Yeah.[00:17:11] What are the, what are the directions, whether it's the exact directions that I believe, or, I mean, not, not obviously business, you talked about how it's unpredictable, you've got control over everything, but the beauty of that as well is that there are things that you can control, of course, and you control as much as you can.[00:17:26] And. If you, you know, there's no, there's no ceiling to what you can do where in a traditional job for 10 years. Okay. There's that you can, you can get promoted and you can sort of move up the ranks, but at some point, unless you challenge the owner, um, you're not going to be able to keep moving up. Yeah, exactly.[00:17:45] And that limit is not really dictated by you either. It's sort of this, um, it's dictated by the parameters around who you work, for which to some people's. I mean, you know, if you like predictability, it's, it's wonderful, isn't it? Because you, you can map it all out and there's a fairly, you can, you can say, you know, every, every X, X, period of time, I'm going to get X promotion, which will come with.[00:18:08] X pay rise, which means that, you know, at this point in my life, I'll be on this much income and I can have this many dependents and this kind of learn. And it's beautiful. But if you like a bit of chaos and I'm predictability, you have to get into business and sort of, no, I think it's also always a fine balance of knowing that it'll be okay and it'll be fine.[00:18:30] But also wanting to work so that it'll be okay and it'll be fine. You can't just sort of dump it all and go tomorrow. I'm going to start a business and it'll be fine. And I'm not going to work towards it. I'm not going to put a plan around that. [00:18:43] Adrian: [00:18:43] Yeah. Yeah. That's really a really insightful germane. Like, it's it, it, you know, and when I first started having that job on the side really, really helped.[00:18:51] So, you know, jumping into stuff like if you, unless you have. The funds to be able to do it, like, you know, to be able to survive. And you've got like a year's worth of runway or more, and you're sorted, then you kind of have, just have to find a way to manage the chaos. Like you said, you know, you got the, the reliable income of a job or salary and, and that you can plan for life with that, you know?[00:19:17] Get married, have kids have a mortgage, et cetera, et cetera, have two holidays a year, all that kind of stuff. But when you go into business for yourself, it's harder to plan that kind of stuff. And so. You know, it's a challenge. And, and so being able to manage that is really, really important part of, part of actually running a business, being able to manage your life so that you sustain yourself is really important.[00:19:37] You know, a mentor said to me, years back, uh, one of my mentors back in Sydney said there are three rocket ships to enlightenment. He said the first one is to have your own business. So it's kinda like rocket ship. Number one, you want to get in alignment, have a business. The second one. Is to have a relationship.[00:19:58] So that's like rocket ship number two goes faster. All right. I guess high, third one is to have kids have a family rocket ship. Number three, these are the three rocket ships. I've only done. Number one. I've had, I've had rugged jet number two, but we crashed and burned a couple of times. [00:20:17] Germaine: [00:20:17] Hey, this is that a [00:20:19] Adrian: [00:20:19] couple of times too.[00:20:20] You know, that's number one. I haven't had rockets number three yet. But we'll see. Anyway, look, those, these are the things, you know, you go for the ambitious, like how much am I going to grow in my life? If I just keep doing this sort of pretty have a predictable, predictable life. It's great. I'm going to enjoy it.[00:20:38] It's going to be mapped out, map it out and I can. Create all of these, these things have a comfortable house and a life and all of that stuff. Or do I want to embrace the chaos and go for my ambitious dreams and goals and see what I can achieve. And, you know, it's not for everybody. I don't think, I think, um, there's pros and cons to both sometimes I think, yeah, it would be great to have a, just, you know, had a, a much simpler life and be able to predict all these things I could still do have great adventures.[00:21:09] Um, But, um, just different sorts, you know, [00:21:12] Germaine: [00:21:12] do you think that the people who feel like, you know, their goal or like part of their, not necessarily their calling, but you know, part of their purpose is to have a business, do you think. It's almost then, like, and I sort of feel this way. So I'm interested to hear what you think is I feel like it's almost my purpose.[00:21:33] It's almost like it'd be incorrect not to at the very least explore it. Like, okay. It can crash and burn. That's fine. But I, I, you know, if I feel like I've, I have that potential. It's it's almost, you know, unfair to myself, let alone the potential impact that I can have and therefore unfair to other people.[00:21:54] If I don't sort of explore it and to, and tap into it. Do you sort of agree with that? Or how do you sort of look at that drive that you might have that sense of entrepreneurship? Expiration innovation? [00:22:06] Adrian: [00:22:06] Yeah, I like that too, man. That's great. Um, I'm being unfair to oneself. Yeah, I think. Yeah. In some way. I, I agree with that.[00:22:15] It's like, if you have a creative desire, you have a burning desire. You want to do something. You want to create something, whether it be to make a piece of Marco sculpture to put on the wall or, you know, or to grab a family and create a wonderful stable environment for your family, or to create a business and to.[00:22:35] Do something like that, or to create a charity and do something great for the world. Uh it's if it's strong enough desire. And, you know, I think I come back to desire as far is where it is. People say desires as bad things and evil, blah, blah, blah. And it's the fruit of all evil and all this stuff. Rubbish desire is actually motivating us.[00:22:53] It drives us to do great things. Uh, sure. It can, you know, the wrong type of. Approach to desire can lead us astray, but it can be, [00:23:03] Germaine: [00:23:03] can just jump in there. It's it's more, what you've got to explore is the root of that desire. That could be a bad thing, right? Desire itself. Isn't a bad thing. It's it's if the root of it is to, you know, global domination that might not be, um, that might not be the best, but if the root of it, that desire is to help more people or to create a safer home for, for your family.[00:23:26] Like that desire then is. Oh, it's fine. Obviously then becomes a matter of what actions you take to make that, that desire reality. But, you know, that's what I would argue and sorry [00:23:37] Adrian: [00:23:37] to cut you off, but no, no, I think you're right. And this is important distinction, but I think also if your desire is to put world domination or to enslave the human race, then I think you're just missing the point.[00:23:46] Right. So just, you know, get with the program, uh, because. That's not the point and it's probably not the root desire of these. Yeah. That's probably coming from fear or anger or resentment or whatever it is, will control or that kind of stuff, you know? And when you do enough work on yourself and you clear your emotional.[00:24:06] Baggage and stuff you find that actually desire is a beautiful thing because we all actually have love in our heart and we all value contribution and get a real, real hit and a real buzz from contributing to the world and having a business with vision and purpose is know, and this is something I hear a lot recently over the last few years, is people talking more and more about the importance of having.[00:24:33] A mission or vision and a purpose purpose led businesses. And so, and how that really is powerful driver for business, not just a business model or a great product or great customer service or great marketing, but actually having something which is purpose led. And I think that's resonating a lot more these days with customers, consumers, the younger generation.[00:24:56] Having a purpose is very important. [00:24:58] Germaine: [00:24:58] Yeah. Well, I mean, they also look at it, I guess, the younger generation and with this freedom to access so much information, you can look into a business and a company and understand whether their values aligned with yours. Whether, you know, just, just yesterday I was talking to at a family dinner and we were talking about ethical sourcing and the freedom or the, the, the, the information that we can tap into these days that lets us educate ourselves.[00:25:24] On on the supply chain. And so ultimately even that, that level of transparency means that, um, I think businesses need to be better just, just even if, even if they were like, you know, I love Nike for example, but I think we were looking through how Nike defines what they do and why they do it. And you know, this might be, um, Improper of me to say, but I think what they, the way they've defined themselves is in, in a positive way so that the younger generation will keep buying Nike, you know, talking about sustainability and innovating in products to sort of enable everyone.[00:26:02] And, you know, um, Nike is for athletes and then there's an asterisk. And the asterisk says, Nike believes that if you're a human, you're an athlete and you know, it starts to get to me, that's commercially driven, but when you're starting a small business, You don't really have that freedom. You have to be good from the ground up because, um, you know, one or two customers can, can be 10% of your whole client base.[00:26:27] Adrian: [00:26:27] Yeah, that's right. [00:26:28] Germaine: [00:26:28] So there's sort of, sort of this importance for you to have be purpose led and truly purpose led as [00:26:32] Adrian: [00:26:32] well. That's right. And, and, and being purpose led, uh, not just for marketing purposes, you know? Uh, because like you can go. Yeah. Well, we were going to be a purpose led business, uh, because that's really good for marketing and it's going to get us more customers because customers want purpose that businesses.[00:26:50] And then, you know, you've just. Kind of shoot yourself in the foot, because all you're going to do is be trying to appear purpose led. And it's like, you got to tap into something which is more human. We got to tap into, you know, the business owners have to have their own personal reason for doing this and the same applies for the team.[00:27:06] You know, you've got to, if you're. If you're running a business, to be able to instill a vision and a sense of purpose to the team is a very powerful thing. If it's just done for marketing, then it's just not going to carry as well. You know, it's just not quite the same when you're maybe at a, uh, when you're global corporation, you can get away with that kind of stuff.[00:27:30] But certainly if it's small businesses, it doesn't resonate. You know, the thing about. Like some, some of the stuff we did for Brivvio is with helping small businesses to connect with audiences, to reach out and create branded videos really quickly and easily. Right? So we have a lot of conversations with small business owners is about branding and reaching out to and connecting with audiences and.[00:27:53] What that means. And some of the interesting things about things that people have said to me as well, what is branding? What branding is the logo? Well, it's your color scheme or it's your image or it's your tagline? Is it, but then the really interesting conversations come back and there's like, no, no, it's none of that stuff, actually.[00:28:09] It's your promise. It's, it's your vision and your purpose and, and the, the message like your future theory and the promise you get to people, which you told me. Yeah, you're on. [00:28:21] Germaine: [00:28:21] Yeah, exactly. Just to make your goals come true, essentially. [00:28:25] Adrian: [00:28:25] Exactly. Yes. They're having a reason for doing it. Um, and that really is powerful on a small business level because the people that you, you reaching, whether it be through social media or your networks, Uh, putting out videos or social media posts or being in podcasts like we're doing now are going to trust you if you're a small business, because you're part of the local community.[00:28:51] There's an there's a much, I, what I'm trying to say is it's easier to trust smaller businesses who you are closer to than it is to trust a brand, a brand that is [00:29:02] Germaine: [00:29:02] that's just everywhere and ubiquitous. Exactly. Yeah. [00:29:05] Adrian: [00:29:05] Feel closer to the people of the business. And so, especially on social media and you're more likely to get a response from the business that is personal.[00:29:16] And so it's easier to build that level of trust. And so. Yeah, there's much, it's a very different experience to, uh, you know, approach the social media and brand and brand message if you like [00:29:28] Germaine: [00:29:28] well, and even having and having that purpose, I've found at a, at a more even operational level, um, makes it really.[00:29:36] Easy when we're making, trying to make decisions. Um, for us internally, we were on a mission to use sort of pre recording of this episode, um, that we look at rebranding and sort of explaining our position and, you know, making decisions along the way. One thing I turned to is. How does it sort of answer, how does it serve our ultimate goal?[00:29:58] And it becomes very easy. For example, like part of, part of it is that we, we want to employ people locally, get people on the team, get people in person. I think moving forward, especially there's this, this is huge thing. We've probably, you know, every generation has heard it where technology is going to.[00:30:16] Kill X amount of jobs or get rid of X amount of jobs. And, and we're seeing that, like we do, um, you would have, you would have seen that from, from sort of the animation side, because people are gonna say, well, technology means that, you know, you can just outsource it to X, Y, Z, or you can just automate it for us.[00:30:34] That's websites, companies like Squarespace, who just go do it yourself. But for us, what it comes back to, and I would hazard a guess that if we use the same, is that. We want to assemble a team of humans who want to help humans and who want to communicate with humans. And ultimately, no matter how good AI gets, no matter how good software gets, they can think like a human, but they can't.[00:31:00] Think as a human, if, if that sort of is a distinction enough. So for us, it becomes, you know, serving people fundamentally is going to mean that we, we will serve people and therefore we can't be removed because, because it has to be a human in this equation. And for you, you're using software. Yes. Uh, through abbreviate, but.[00:31:23] Ultimately that is designed for people and there's going to be a limit to, you know, in skilled hands preview could be, would be much better than in less skilled hands because you still got to get the, get the message right within the video. You've still got to identify who you're talking to and talk to them how they want to hear you.[00:31:43] Versus just making a video because that can be anything, right. I'm sure you've experienced the whole spectrum of good to bad videos. Hello, feature tribe. I just wanted to take a break from this episode. Talk to you. Yes. You about the fact that you are listening to this episode, but you're not subscribing.[00:32:04] So go ahead. Hit the subscribe button right now. It really helps us out. I should also ask you to join our Facebook community. There's a link in the description. Check out the YouTube channel for an edited full end clips of the podcast and tell your friends, ask them to subscribe. If you have any suggestions of who we should try and get on the podcast next and who we should have a conversation with, reach out to us.[00:32:27] All our social links and contact details are in the description. That's it for me for now. Back to the episode.[00:32:38] Adrian: [00:32:38] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'll tell you a little story. When I first started, I got, my whole career has been behind the video camera or looking through the lens of the screen and editing and post production. And so I scrutinizing every little pixel. And with Rubio, I started to have to put myself in front of the camera to actually show how this works and do my own little videos.[00:33:01] And, and I go on the first time I put myself on camera, I was terrified I was doing an interview for something. And I was just telling I was, I froze up. I couldn't speak properly. I sounded weird. I was like, I don't know what to do with my hands. Should I look at the lens. I was just like, Oh crap. And so, yeah, even with it's career of directing and so on other people, it was hard and it, because there's, there is that human element to putting yourself in front of the camera.[00:33:36] Um, and so, yeah, it was definitely a journey to be able to present and put your camera. And there are a whole bunch of things that you can learn and tips and tricks, tricks, and techniques, and to learn that stuff and anybody can do it really. It's just a matter of going, you know, going through the process of getting comfortable with it, learning a few tricks and tips.[00:33:56] Tips and techniques, but yeah, that's, I think what you were saying, going back to the AI sort of thing about, you know, replacing people's jobs and things is you can't really replace the why y'all don't you can't, I don't know. Maybe you can, but maybe one day we'll be able to, but I don't think at the moment you can get things like artificial intelligence and machine learnings to kind of really have a fully conceptual reason reasoning or understanding of why.[00:34:19] We should be doing something. Why would you do this instead of that? Or why X, Y, Z is better than this. And that's where the human judgment comes in. And it's a very subjective thing. So yeah, I think those types of jobs where that level of reasoning come in, creative reasoning things that will be very hard for AI to, uh, to replace, um, Going off on a tangent here where they are, but Hey, it kind of still comes back to that human thing of, of purpose and you know, why are we doing stuff?[00:34:51] You know, what are we doing here on the planet? The more we connected with Y like, okay, can I just start verge into another little story, go for it. The animation business. Thanks. I love this is another little one that I was doing a, I've always been doing lots of trainings throughout my life. I've always been.[00:35:08] Putting myself into new learning experiences, trying to kind of advance myself and grow personally. And one of the ones I did was in Sydney, out of. Five or six years ago. Uh, I did the entourage training with Jack Delosa team in, uh, in Sydney. And it was great. It was really, really good. I mean, people, some people love it.[00:35:31] Some people hate it. I had a great time. I went through that whole training. One of the most important things I got out of, it was the. Connecting with, uh, the vision for the business. And so the previously right back, we did a lot of advertising marketing. We were studied a little bit of technology stuff, a little bit of science communication, and.[00:35:54] Um, when I connected with the, the real vision for the business, this sort of sense of purposefulness that changed the business. And I'd always had this conflict with me as like, yeah, I'm good at what I do. I grew up good at running this business. We do great on emotional, got a great team of animators designers and people that we rely on and we do great stuff.[00:36:15] Right? Skirt, riding, all of it's fantastic. But. A lot of it's marketing, it's been sort of like, you know, selling stuff. And I had this push pull of like, well, there's something else inside me as a person that wants to express itself, uh, that wasn't feeling like it sat perfectly well with the business, which was about communication and marketing.[00:36:37] And when I resolved that it all clicked into place and that was getting in touch with this one little set of words. And that was why. Why am I doing this? And that is to move human thinking forward. And I have, sorry, somebody's pinging me on Slack. That's right. When I got those words and I was helped by the team and the entourage to kind of connect with that, it was like, Oh yes.[00:37:03] If I can make my business a manifestation of this purpose, it's kind of like my personal reason for being here on this planet to move human thinking forward, it felt. Emotionally like, ah, I'm fulfilling something in myself personally through my business and the business is creating value for the planet.[00:37:23] The people, the customers, everything it's a win-win win, win, win all around. Yeah. It changed the business and. Over the next couple of years I had, I, without even really trying, just having that statement present for me and repeating that and even putting it on the website. That's my vision. That's the vision for the business.[00:37:42] Just seem to attract different customers. And we started getting really big, interesting projects that were about, um, Uh, the great barrier reef or environmental staff, um, helping people with, uh, understanding government policies or, uh, the Marine parks or blockchain or technology, really interesting things.[00:38:06] And the marketing and sales stuff, which was more advertising type stuff for products and things started to just drop away. I don't even have to do anything to actually try that. It was just connecting with the vision, made a huge difference in the business. Somehow on some level, I don't know how it works and the mechanics of it.[00:38:25] Germaine: [00:38:25] I mean, I guess there's surely an element of you, especially when he's starting off the individual is the business, right? So I'm sure as an extension of you thinking that way, the business, to an extent also thought that way, because at least initially when you're starting off. For all intents and purposes, that is you are the business and therefore you, how you think is how the business thinks.[00:38:47] I, I can't believe like genuinely, um, I wasn't expecting the purpose behind what you do to be so separate almost cause I've always wondered, like I know why we do what we do and now to come now, come to think of it. It's almost really quite, quite separate, but. You use that information to move human thinking forward.[00:39:11] And I just didn't think that that that's where this conversation was going to go. But that is, that is I can see how that could be so enlightening and so powerful because then that, that informs the decisions that you make. And, um, You know, you might not do it sort of very manually and you might not do it intentionally, but it would also affect who you work with and the types of projects that you do.[00:39:35] We we've got that to an extent as well, where again, the more we've started focusing on why we do what we do. We've. Being even more comfortable saying no to projects. Like a few months ago, there was a project that came in, it would have been humongous. This person wanted to start essentially his own little car sales and car sales is a really big website, but it was all money-driven.[00:39:55] And I could tell from the conversation, the fact that, you know, in the emails are short, it was just like, This suspect's just give me a price. I said, that's not how we work. And we mate, I don't want to meet, just give me a price. Just give me a price. I just want to get this done as cheap as possible. And when we ask ourselves the question of, is this what we want to do is this, you know, okay, we talked about making goals come true.[00:40:16] Might this be this person's goal? But I guess as a, as a layer of that for us is also making, asking is this is this for the, for the better of, you know, bettering of society communities, is this helping someone. W we sort of came back to, this is just going to be helping some guys so more caused that it could be of questionable quality could be, it could be.[00:40:39] Amazing quality, but, but ultimately it doesn't sort of fit in and, you know, even, even for you, I'm sure you've found this as well. Where when you ha, when you've taken on projects, sometimes there are moments of maybe not for you, but for me, I've definitely had moments of sort of financial desperation of like, we just got to accept this because it's, there's not enough money in the bank to make payroll next week or whatever.[00:41:01] And you take on a project and you realize this thing just. It doesn't align with what I'm trying to do. And therefore it's a chore it's gone from, you know, you could animate one thing that is beautiful. I can, you just wouldn't well, how much time that, that you don't don't even feel tired POS and you could spend office time on something else and go at that felt like it took four times longer because.[00:41:24] It doesn't align with ultimately, and the beauty of, I guess, being your own boss of Matt, being the business, um, is that you can decide to say no to projects and you don't have to, you don't have to push your morals and ethics sometimes where I know people who, you know, We're in very, even like sales assistants who have to sort of blur their own morals and ethics because, Hey, you've got KPIs.[00:41:48] I to, and if you don't, the retail is going to really blast you and your manager's going to be in trouble and you don't have that control. Yeah. [00:41:55] Adrian: [00:41:55] Yeah, yeah, totally. Uh, it's, it's such an interesting subject. Like, you know, I've certainly had times where it's been hard to meet all of the obligations of running and owning a business.[00:42:08] At, uh, that's just part of having a business is you're always aware of that and it's sometimes it's easier and sometimes it's harder. Um, there's always challenges, but then there's also this thing of taking on projects for money versus taking on projects for purpose, you know, doing the right thing or the thing that's right for you as a business, as a people, as humans and.[00:42:39] In my experience, every time I've taken on a project, which has felt more about money. And that kind of what we need to make, make ends meet an oil. We need to put money in the bank, and this is a good opportunity to make some money. And it's not necessarily aligned with the vision every single time. It's been harder, more difficult, and usually not as profitable as the things that are.[00:43:07] More purpose led. I put it down to when things are purpose led and you're sort of aligned with them and it feels good to be doing them to doing the work. It's easy to get out of bed in the morning and roll into work and do it because it feels good. There's a, a sense of, um, I suppose, optimism and reason for doing it.[00:43:27] That is beyond the money and that's powerful. Whereas, if you're doing some things, because you have to, it doesn't feel great, you know, a trap it's harder and that somehow creates resistances and complexities in the workplace and the job, the client relations and all of that kind of stuff that might make it harder.[00:43:48] Financially profitability, just more difficult in, in the long run. So. Yeah, it'd be fascinating to see if anybody's done any research, somebody off somewhere. I've probably done some research looking at that type of yeah. To see whether there is profitability differences between purpose led and nonprofit, non purpose led businesses.[00:44:08] It'd be really interesting to see. [00:44:10] Germaine: [00:44:10] It probably has a lot to do. I mean, talking about the fact that inevitably, you know, when, when you don't necessarily do. Take on stuff. That's purpose led that tends to be more issues that tends to just, it just tends to not, not work as well. I'm sure it's something to do with mindset as well.[00:44:25] Right? Because if it's something that's purpose led a problem might not look like a problem. A problem might just look like a little, little road bump on the wave versus a huge closed gate that keeps you out. So, um, I'm sure I'm sure [00:44:39] Adrian: [00:44:39] exactly. It's the attitude is different. But, you know, it doesn't mean that we should all run around, you know, being a charity cases without businesses, suddenly Trump spending all of the profits on we're still got personal goals and visions, uh, for profitability.[00:44:54] So it's, you still have to have all of that business logic and business models and, and, and be accountable, uh, as a business. It doesn't mean you just suddenly go off and start trying to save the planet because you can't do it. It's gotta be sustainable. [00:45:09] Germaine: [00:45:09] Well, exactly. Ultimately, Just because you're doing, doing something purpose led the realities of the physics, the, the fact of how everything works does it, don't just cease to exist.[00:45:21] Right. Just because you're doing, trying to do something purpose led the, you know, your electricity provider, isn't going to say, don't worry about it. That electricity is free or whatever it may be. So it's ultimately. Got it got to sort of work. Like it's one thing that I had thought about when I got into the business full time was if I had to work and at the time it was, you know, if I had to do like a, a sales assistant type role on the weekends, or if I had to, um, you know, finish work at five o'clock at six o'clock start cleaning someone's someone's office, um, until nine o'clock to then fund the business, I was willing to do that.[00:46:00] I was like, If that's what it takes, knowing that that's not forever. It's just when I'm starting off, when things are quiet, when they, when you're trying to build things up, it's, it's sort of, you know, for me that wouldn't have been much at all. It would've just been a way of accepting the realities, the physics, the, the things that life entails and the systems that we've built, just realizing that.[00:46:23] I've got to play the game. I can't, I can't sort of go, I am going to remove myself from these things that dictate everyone else's life like bills and, and the need to eat. For example. Um, I'm just going to look at ways where I can. I can still do it all. Um, and, and, you know, make some money separately. If that was the problem at the time, I did have another question.[00:46:47] This goes back to way earlier when you talked about so many tangents, but that's, that's what this is all about. I, I, I love, I, I love this. Um, you talked about accelerator, so you went to Griffin accelerator. I want to just talk to you a little bit about. Y Y you went to an accelerator. What you, how you thought about that and how you chose to take, what is that?[00:47:14] I would assume there was some investment monetary investment there as well. And why you, how you sort of factored all that into the decision that you made versus just trying to self-funded for example. [00:47:25] Adrian: [00:47:25] Yeah. Yeah. Good. That's a brilliant question. Germaine opens up a whole load of really interesting subjects.[00:47:32] Um, so when I first. Okay, so I'll backtrack a little bit more. Uh, one of the other things I learned when I was around about the time that I was getting in touch with my division that we've spoken about was this concept of. What is a startup, what is the business life cycle from startup proof of concept, MVP, startup to growth, to scale, and then to exit.[00:48:04] And there's this kind of like curve that it kind of starts off slow and then growth and scale, and then exit. And well, sometimes IPO for the big ones and this kind of curve that goes up was kind of new to me. And it goes back to what we were mentioning earlier when we were discussing this, the reasons for getting into business and the not, and must be when not having an idea of an exit and, and seeing this picture really clearly for me.[00:48:32] Gave me a sense of, ah, uh, well, how do you go on this journey to have, like, let's say a five or 10 year journey with a business where you can exit at the end of that and sell it and then have enough money to pay off your house or, you know, start up another venture or maybe retire. And when, when I say retire, I don't mean going live on the farm.[00:48:55] I mean, do whatever you need, want to do in life fruit out to, [00:48:59] Germaine: [00:48:59] yeah. For money to not, not be a constraint. [00:49:01] Adrian: [00:49:01] Yeah, exactly. And so this sort of picture of the business lifecycle made me understand the value of capital and the value of investment in businesses and why people raise capital at startup stage.[00:49:15] And. Uh, and growth stages and the business and things like seed angel investors, uh, seed and seed funding series, a series B funding and IPO's and what that does for a business. It gave me a picture of, Oh, I'm just understand one of those things of a valuable now, because the more money you have at the beginning, the more capital you have in the business at the beginning, the faster you can grow and otherwise you have to bootstrap it and it's a slow journey.[00:49:43] And. You don't necessarily have the scale to be able to the funds to be able to put on a business development marketing manager or whatever it is to be able to do some advertising, to bring in more sales, uh, or to develop that product, that's going to open up into a new market. And so that's the value of home capital.[00:50:00] And so though I realized when I had this idea for Breo, I'm going to be some money and I don't really have enough money to do this by myself. How am I going to do this? And I now have this picture of it. Well, I can go and see if I can find some angel investors to put some money in, to own a little bit of equity, and I understand what they're going to get out of it.[00:50:19] Their, their vision is. So get a particular return on their investment. They might want to get 10, 20 times return on their investment, which is obviously a lot more than you can get in a bank or a fund. And they'll spend a little bit of their cash to be able to take apart. And. Yeah. If they believe in the business and if they believe in founder.[00:50:40] And so I stopped look at that as an option for Brivvio . And I thought, right, well, I'll put together pitch deck. And I started to show it to a couple of people who I knew were working and had connections in this space and to float the idea of, you know, could I raise $150,000 to make this a fast growth business?[00:51:02] And. What I realized was actually, no, it was a course. I did. It could the Canberra innovation network that was about negotiating term sheets. Um, that was fantastic. And I went and did this course at Canberra innovation network taught that was a simulation of negotiating with investors to raise finance.[00:51:24] And, uh, it was fantastic. It was, it was such an eye opener that I realized. I'm going to be eaten alive. If I can try and do this now without some sort of mentor and coaching and the right type of people around me to grow my skillset, to get my confidence up, I will. Just get eaten alive, you know, that just gonna I'll end up with nothing of the business or something like that.[00:51:51] So I thought, well, you know what? I need to find that place where I can get that mentorship. How am I going to learn all this stuff? Because I've never done this stuff before one, I started looking at lots of books. I was reading books about venture capital, startup funding, all that kind of stuff. And I learned a lot through that, but really it was when I found out about the Griffin, et cetera, whatnot.[00:52:13] Three or four months of dedicated immersion in that, and really kind of having mentors around me that I can talk to all the time on call would be fantastic. Um, and so yes, it meant giving up a little bit of the business, like giving a percentage of the business stuff, but it also got a little bit of injection of funds to kickstart it as well.[00:52:34] And so I thought, well, that's, I'll, I'll give it a go. And see, see what happens rather than me trying to go straight out there and raise funding without that level of mentorship on, uh, I'll I'll do this first. And that was my decision to apply for the Griffin accelerator program. And I think that it paid off in that respect.[00:52:52] Germaine: [00:52:52] Yeah. And then I think one of those realizations that I had over over the years is that. Money is a tool rather than this thing that you necessarily had to accumulate. It's just a, it can be an exchange of, um, you know, in a business it's, it's a tool, but also, um, it's, it's something that someone gives you an exchange for value that you present to them, right?[00:53:16] So it's this thing that can take different shapes and forms. And, um, I think there's. For different people and you met, you can make a mistake of it, right? You can take, take on too much debt because money is just a tool. And, um, and then you can really, in-depth damaging yourself. And that's the sort of look at in credit card debt and things like that.[00:53:35] But then you look at it as a tool, as a tool for a business, and it's a tool that can unlock, you know, more personnel. It can unlock. Rapid growth, hockey stick growth. It can, it can do, do more. And it's, it's a conversation that I have with people sort of close to me in my life who. Uh, so did they work traditional jobs in the and things like that?[00:53:57] So they look at money as this thing that they, they work, they earn, they like, there's a, there's a, there's a very finite cap around the parameters to which they can, like, they can't just, you know, earn more money tomorrow than they did today. It's sort of very limited. But then when you're running a business, I think you've got to, you've got to obviously respect to that.[00:54:19] That money is, is, is sort of something that you need to keep the lights on to pay people. This is someone's abilities, but at the same time, it's this tool that there's no, there's not a cap to how much, you know, there's nothing stopping a business from earning more money tomorrow than they did today, or 10 times more money in two days than they did today.[00:54:36] Um, so you've got to sort of look at it as a tool and it looks like. That is sort of that decision that you made and obviously tapping into the expertise and the personnel and the network around you that you would have got access to through Griffin accelerator as well. That would have been [00:54:49] Adrian: [00:54:49] invaluable.[00:54:50] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah. I vividly remember some of the conversations that were very challenging, turning with mentors who have successfully built up a business over 10 years and sold it for millions of dollars. Right. And they ask hard questions. Questions. I would never ask myself. And a lot of them I didn't want to hear.[00:55:09] And you know what, that's, that's valuable stuff, right? To have access to a pool of mentors who can ask those. Hard questions and challenge you a little bit, but also access to investors as well, to be introduced to potential angel investors. Is this valuable because how else do you meet them? If you've just got an idea and you don't already work, walk in those circles of what they could talk about, what they call other people's money, network investors and stuff.[00:55:38] Yeah. It's a great way to find that because otherwise you're reading books, you're watching stuff on YouTube. This new audio books and all that kind of stuff. Maybe doing some online courses, it's armchair stuff. Right. [00:55:49] Germaine: [00:55:49] You can only go so theoretical sexual on jail until, you know, you actually have to do it [00:55:56] Adrian: [00:55:56] and [00:55:58] Germaine: [00:55:58] have to sort of execute on that.[00:56:00] I mean, uh, I, I'm sort of, we're looking at a similar thing of how can we. Sort of further outgrowth because for, for, for the last few years, it's very much been just reinvesting reinvesting, taking low pay so that we can reinvest more into the business. But you know, that that too reaches a limit because, um, below a certain threshold there's costs of living that that have to be.[00:56:27] Have to be sort of accounted for. So you can't just go into, go to zero or, um, no matter how hard you try. So, um, that's what I thought. I'd sort of pitch that question to you. See how you sort of approached it and how you sort of answered those questions for yourself now. Um, As we sort of wrap up, what do you hope to do moving forward within the two different businesses?[00:56:49] Will they, are they, are they sort of, has red boat continued to sort of stay at the same size? Or are you looking at sort of trying to scale that up as well or how you're handling the two businesses? [00:57:01] Adrian: [00:57:01] Yeah. Yeah. Interesting question. So, you know, the vision red boat, I love the red boat. It's not something that I'll ever let go of or, well, I mean, look Brivvio is on a trajectory to growth.[00:57:13] So that's my real passion baby at the moment is growing that. And so I put a lot of energy into that. And so, you know, that's, that's got a huge potential red boat is harder to scale, but it's such a valuable business. I love the work we do. And. It's, uh, I love it. It's, it's wonderful thing that we create beautiful animations that really help people and for worthy causes and stuff like, you know, right now we're doing one for the United nations environment program about the reef and staff.[00:57:41] And it's just beautiful. It's about saving reefs and stuff and dealing with things. I did one recently for a new technology for which is addressing climate change, sort of emissions and stuff, dealing with what's doesn't address. Climate is it's part of the solution anyway, so. Stuff like that is always valuable.[00:58:00] And I want back to continue. So my vision for robot is to continue that and to grow that gently enough so that it can become something that sustains its self, maybe bring on some new partners, there's some collaborate with the right people or the right groups or other businesses to be able to take that further.[00:58:19] Then I can by myself and with Bravio, uh, yeah, that's, that's something that is good. A lot of growth ahead of it. And we're right at the beginning of that, really? So we really, I mean, you know, we launched the app in February. We're still kind of in prelaunch, really for where we were at Kango. So it's early days, it's early stage and a very exciting time for it because we're still developing and evolving it and pivoting it.[00:58:44] Germaine: [00:58:44] Yeah. That's extremely exciting. Um, and, and I can tell from sort of how you talk about it, that you just can't wait to see, see where you can take it. One last question before we sort of get into the top 12, when is there going to be an Android app?[00:59:01] Adrian: [00:59:01] That's the million dollar question. You know, if, uh, if I had a dollar for every time somebody asked me that question, we would have an Android app right now. So it's partly cashflow. It's partly sort of, you know, when we, when we. Yeah, we've been refining the product to get it right. And, uh, over the last six months, and we've got a really good solid base products.[00:59:20] Now the app is really a great platform, but, uh, and, and there's still lots to love. A lot of new things we can do with that, but it is on the roadmap to do the Android version as soon as possible. And so it's partly a matter of, um, getting the capital to do it, getting the right partners, the right people to come on board to help with that.[00:59:41] And so, yeah, we were actively. Sort of [00:59:44] Germaine: [00:59:44] working towards this. Yeah. Well, and once you get the iOS app at a place where you guys are happy with it, then it's much easier to then go to someone and say, this is the iOS app, make an Android app. That is, that is the same. Because then, then the question becomes, what technology do we need to use rather than.[01:00:01] What are we building? What technology do we need to use? What does it look like? How does it function? All that stuff as well. So I'm just, yeah. I just use Android devices. So that's why I asked. [01:00:11] Adrian: [01:00:11] Yeah. Yeah. I would love to say here it's really put it it's high on the agenda and, um, Yeah. I can't say anything more.[01:00:20] Germaine: [01:00:20] I mean, it's, it's a measured thing, right? Like it, you can't do everything in one go, you've got to be careful about it because if you overextend yourself, just develop an app that could say the business going under completely. If you sort of overcapitalize there. So it's all part of these calculations that you've got to make.[01:00:35] Looking at the ultimate destination. And if it takes you 12 months longer, but then you end up with a better end roadmap and a more sustainable business. That's always going to be better than just, you know, answering the annoying Android fan boys like me, who just wants an app to check it out. But saying that we're getting, once the new iPhone gets announced, we're going to, we're going to acquire another iPhone, but just for testing purposes so we can download and check the checkout your app, um, at that time as well.[01:01:01] Yeah. Speaking of which, where can people find out more about your businesses? [01:01:07] Adrian: [01:01:07] Yeah, well, so, yeah. Thanks. Uh, so I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me Adrian King and, um, you can find out about the animation business@redboats.com that I, you it's red boats as in like, you know, lessen water. That's painted red, uh, red boat a year, and that's a whole nother story.[01:01:26] I won't go into why I called it that, but that strip at the company at the animation. And then for Brivvio is Brivvio.com. B R I V V I O .com. Love it and love it. That's also on the app store. [01:01:41] Germaine: [01:01:41] Yeah. Awesome. Um, let's, let's get into the top 12, if you already, yeah. Okay. Um, top three books or podcasts that you recommend.[01:01:50] Adrian: [01:01:50] Yeah. Look, I'm listening to an audio book at the moment, which I'm loving and that's a gamification by Ukiah. Ciao. Uh, which is his op Telesis framework is brilliant. Um, and yeah, I mean, it kind of touches on a lot of the amazing stuff that we've been talking about to do with purpose and, and what motivates people as well.[01:02:09] So, uh, you know, it's a, it's a great book about, uh, Gamifying businesses, technology, but also applies to all sorts of other things like life, you know, uh, you can, um, use these sort of human psychology things in, um, in life. What else? Gosh, our pitch, anything was great when I read recently, um, by our in class.[01:02:33] That's fantastic. If you some great stuff in there, um, Contagious was also brilliant. So you can see the theme of the books. I've been reading a lot about communication, pitching business and, uh, human psychology of understanding how people engage with experiences and businesses and tech. Um, yeah, there was another one that was really good, uh, by, uh, what's his name?[01:03:00] Yeah, I think it was Ron Hoover. Just scanning through my audible list at the moment. [01:03:07] Germaine: [01:03:07] I'm an audio book fan as well, I think. Um, yeah, it's just amazing. [01:03:12] Adrian: [01:03:12] Our venture deals by Bradfield was a good one, uh, that, you know what also, I love books like homogeneous and, um, you know, by you Noah around. So they go pronounce that correctly.[01:03:25] Um, that stuff's really cool level, that stuff about. I suppose it's sort of an anthropological view of humans over the millennia. Um, yeah. Is that, that's a three [01:03:38] Germaine: [01:03:38] that's about five or six, but love it. Um, top three software tools that you can't live without. [01:03:44] Adrian: [01:03:44] Ah, man. Okay. Now you got me. [01:03:50] Germaine: [01:03:50] What's the first thing you check when you're out of bed on your phone?[01:03:52] Like what, is there an app that you go [01:03:54] Adrian: [01:03:54] to? First thing I go to. Uh, you know, I read the news stuff. That's probably the first thing is catch up on some news, which I probably shouldn't do because it's very depressing these days. I hate to say it, but I do use Facebook to stay in touch with friends and stuff like that.[01:04:12] Um, but you know, that's all right. You know, a lot of stuff is actually. Slack is a big part of my life now, which I never thought it would be, but it is become that to discuss with my team email. I have a love, hate relationship with, and I use Gmail, but I'm struggling with email these days. Like. It's just become this stream of emails that it's hard to keep up with and it, because it's too many marketing lists some on or something like that.[01:04:46] And no matter how many times I've gone through this process of getting back to inbox zero. And yeah, never seems to last, which so things like Slack are alike because they're actually built around this concept of a conversational stream. So that type of, uh, I think we're shifting, you know, in terms of that transactional conversations to become more Slack, like [01:05:09] Germaine: [01:05:09] yeah, definitely.[01:05:10] Most even for us, um, external communications still happens through email, but where we can, we put clients into. Other, like we use Hangouts internally, which is a Google product, similar to Slack. We, we put, we know we're happy to add a client on Slack. If that's easier for them to communicate, or we text with the via clients.[01:05:28] I texted with a few clients who, so it's almost like the question that we put, put in there and say, what's, what's the best way to communicate with you? Um, like our bookkeeper, the bookkeeper, and I, we always text or call because. We've we've sort of established that that's the bit best way to get an immediate action from either one of us.[01:05:45] So I think part of, sort of what we're sort of coming up with is that looking at sort of the tools and looking at how that fits into your life and how it works and not necessarily just doing things because that's how things have been done. I think really, really sort of tweaking what you're doing for why you're doing it is, is a, is a good way to approach it.[01:06:04] Top three mantra is you try to live by [01:06:06] Adrian: [01:06:06] yeah. Uh, You know, I kind of got one, which is, uh, believe nothing, entertain everything. And what that means is, I mean, it's kind of really nothing, right? Don't believe you've stuff, always question everything because there's always a different view of reality. And it goes down to a fundamental, I suppose, acknowledgement that each of us has a valid experience of reality and.[01:06:35] Not to believe other people's views necessarily. And to the entertain, everything part of it is that if you don't entertain everything, you're accepting limitations from. Uh, preconceived ideas, whether it'd be your own limitations or other people's projections of what's limp, what is achievable. And so entertain, everything means, always leave, leave your options open to something bigger and better and more exciting or more passion filled or more purposeful or better outcomes because.[01:07:10] Uh, everything's possible. Nothing's true. [01:07:13] Germaine: [01:07:13] It's exactly like that. That's something that I come across a lot of is, um, you know, I just keep, keep thinking. Cause people say that's not possible. That's impossible. That's so rare. But the way I look at it as if, if a human's already done it, then. I'm a human too, and I can probably do it.[01:07:29] And if a human hasn't done it, um, and it there's no, you know, there's, there's no reason why you can't try and do it and you can't explore it. So, um, entertaining, everything I think is, is how I go sort of go into everything with an open mind because there have been meetings where, you know, we talked to a client and you know, this is sort of the.[01:07:46] 30th 50th client from the same industry. And we go in sort of knowing this is the, this is the playbook that we're going to follow for these guys. And, you know, they say something or they've tapped into something that just completely opens everything up. And if we didn't go in with that, with that mindset of, you know, this is an idea that we have, but we've got to really build out our solution based on the client.[01:08:07] We could have left something on the table that. That, you know, we, we would have otherwise been able to tap into. So, um, love that, love that, um, top three people you follow or study. And why do you, do you sort of keep track of what, what are no certain entrepreneurs, business, people are doing anything like that?[01:08:23] Adrian: [01:08:23] Really? I probably should. Um, Yeah. No, not really. Uh, yeah, that'd be good. Well, I think, [01:08:35] Germaine: [01:08:35] I mean, I don't, I asked the question every episode, but I don't. Yeah. I mean, I would lie if I said. I do that, but at the same time, I think that's for me because I am trying as much as possible to run my own race. I'm very good at putting pressure on myself without necessarily having to look at what other people are doing to put more pressure on itself.[01:08:54] But at the same time, I think [01:08:56] Adrian: [01:08:56] there's so many, I mean, I think I go through phases of spending a bit of time looking at each, uh, different people. Uh, I remember there was a phase where I, I followed a lot of. Brain's gone blank. Um, you know, the video guy, the social video guy that everybody knows is very [01:09:12] Germaine: [01:09:12] outspoken, [01:09:13] Adrian: [01:09:13] always wears it.[01:09:14] Eric Gary bank. Yeah. So I was pulling a lot of this stuff for a while, you know, and I follow a lot of these sort of outspoken. So they're all over social media and, you know, it's interesting to follow and listening and, you know, take a bit takes, take it all with a pinch of salt, but there's some great stuff in there.[01:09:28] If you read, especially if you read between the lines because, um, not every it, there is never, I find with those types of. Influencers. There's never a one size fits all solution. You know, they have some great stuff and great content, but it's not always applicable to everybody. And so you have to just selectively pick bits and pieces from different people and find out what works for you.[01:09:55] And that's true for everybody in sense of that, you know, nobody's going to have the same circumstances and situation or business. So I'd move one. I'm doing it. Moment is, uh, with a great guy that does video ninjas, his name's Ken, uh, West Saki, and he's based in Tokyo and he does some great courses and trainings about, uh, being, becoming a better video, presenter, presenting, and marketing, doing marketing videos and stuff like that.[01:10:25] He's he's great. Highly recommended stuff. What else? [01:10:30] Germaine: [01:10:30] Yeah. Yeah, no, no, totally, totally agree. And I think quickly touching on your Gary, Gary V point or talking, you know, look at listening to influencers. I think what you've gotta remember, um, even when it comes to businesses, just because they've had success, um, even if, you know, That, that person or the company that they're worked with looks exactly like yours, ultimately it's execution.[01:10:52] And it's a lot more factors that go into it then than just, um, you know, than just, Oh, they worked for someone in my industry, so they will be able to do the same thing thing for me. And the same thing applies like for testimonials, same thing applies for influencers, putting out messages, just because, you know, work for them to work for their dad in, in Gary V's case for a long time.[01:11:12] And, you know, tech. Build the first online wine library and all that stuff. I mean, good luck trying to create the world's first online, whatever nowadays everything's everything's been done. So, um, you just got to, but you've got to take out of that, you know, that maybe the point is that you've, you, you've got to be willing to just work your butt off or experiment and innovate and take take from that.[01:11:34] What, what your message needs to be. So thanks for your time, Adrian. [01:11:38] Adrian: [01:11:38] My [01:11:39] Germaine: [01:11:39] wonderful conversation. [01:11:41] Adrian: [01:11:41] Yeah, it's been awesome. [01:11:42] Germaine: [01:11:42] We'd love to, um, we'd love to catch up sometime. And, um, one last one last time. Um, give us the two different links for your two different businesses. [01:11:51] Adrian: [01:11:51] Thanks, Brian. Yeah. So red boat, the animation businesses, red boat.com.edu and Brivviofor the app that lets you create branded and captioned videos instantly.[01:12:01] Brivvio.com B R I double V I O. Dot com. Awesome. [01:12:06] Germaine: [01:12:06] Thanks again.
Thursday Nov 26, 2020
Thursday Nov 26, 2020
With the holiday season fast approaching, we thought it would be a good idea to once again record a gift buying guide for our listeners. Unlike last year’s instalment, however, this episode will focus much more on functional products that will help our community achieve their personal and professional goals. Throughout this episode, our hosts touch on the best hardware and software money can buy, as well as some other tips you can use to find some great deals this holiday season.
Hardware recommendations:
Computer components
Second hand 1080ti
https://www.ebay.com.au/b/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1080-Ti-NVIDIA-Computer-Graphics-Video-Cards/27386/bn_7116470191
Laptops
Laptops with Ryzen 4800h processor
Lenovo Legion 5 - https://futr.link/legion-5
Hp Omen - https://futr.link/hp-omen
ASUS TUF - https://futr.link/asus-TUF
Apple’s M1 chip
Apple MacBook Air M1 - https://futr.link/macbook-air-m1
Apple MacBook Pro M1 - https://futr.link/macbook-pro-m1
Phones
iPhone 11 - https://futr.link/iphone-11
Google Pixel - https://futr.link/pixel-4a
Headphones
Airpods - https://www.apple.com/au/airpods/
Galaxy Buds - https://futr.link/galaxy-buds
Galaxy Buds+ - https://futr.link/galaxy-buds-plus
Galaxy Buds Live - https://futr.link/galaxy-buds-live
Sony 1000xm4 - https://futr.link/wh-1000xm4
Cameras and recording equipment (Don’t know what links to put for these)
Look at eBay for cheap studio equipment
Any Canon Camera that will fit a 50mm portrait lens
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - https://futr.link/canon-50mm
Sony RX100 series - https://futr.link/rx100vii
HyperX Quadcast - https://futr.link/HyperX-QuadCast
Logitech c922 webcam - https://futr.link/logitech-c922
Software/Sites:
Team organisation tools /Workflow management systems
Plutio - https://www.plutio.com/
Google Workspace - https://workspace.google.com.au
Asana - https://asana.com/
Graphic design and editing suites
Adobe Creative Cloud - https://www.adobe.com/au/creativecloud.html
Crello - https://futr.link/crello
Final Cut Pro - https://www.apple.com/au/final-cut-pro/
Website development
Local by Flywheel - https://localwp.com/
WordPress - https://wordpress.org/
Shopify - https://www.shopify.com.au/
Squarespace - https://www.squarespace.com/
Email marketing software
Mailchimp - https://mailchimp.com/
Mailpoet (WordPress plugin) - https://www.mailpoet.com/
Royalty-free music/image providers
Our favourite free stock photo sites: https://futuretheory.com.au/4-best-free-stock-photo-sites/
Soundcloud - https://soundcloud.com/
Online portfolios
Behance - https://www.behance.net/
Dribble - https://dribbble.com/
Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors
Germaine: [00:00:00] Hello, Future Tribe. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. On this episode, we've got the second episode of this season, featuring a Futureheory. Staff members. So this time around it's Hayden, who is our podcast manager, and he's going to be editing this podcast this episode right afterwards. But how are you today?[00:01:08] Hayden: [00:01:08] Yeah, not too bad. Germaine. How are you doing [00:01:10] Germaine: [00:01:10] good. Thanks. He used to feature a lot more, um, on the broadcast. Yeah. Thanks. Hopefully I haven't [00:01:16] Hayden: [00:01:16] lost my touch. [00:01:17] Germaine: [00:01:17] Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully you haven't lost your podcast persona. [00:01:22] Hayden: [00:01:22] I listened to enough of them. I'm sure that I can get [00:01:24] Germaine: [00:01:24] it back [00:01:25] Hayden: [00:01:25] the rest off and I'll be, I'll [00:01:27] Germaine: [00:01:27] be here.[00:01:27] Be good to go. Um, yeah, this, this episode is a bit of a different one from what you're used to. Um, we wanted to that the team had a chat and we wanted to come up with an episode that was a bit of a buyer's guide so that if you're buying. Something for the, for the festive season, for Christmas, for someone special or for yourself, you had something to go off, but then as an extension as well, we wanted to have an episode that would give you ideas around software tools, recommendations that you can use.[00:01:56] Um, no matter what sort of. Project you're working on. So, you know, whether it's the new year's resolution that you want to start your own podcast, um, or whether it's in new year's resolution that you want to start a side business or go go full time into your business. We hope that this episode essentially is it's just sort of cast a wide net and suggest things that are based off our experience based off using, using a lot of these tools, all of these tools, these are the things that we can vouch for ourselves and stand behind that, you know, You should go out there, buy these, buy these for like, I was just having a chat with some of the team earlier today that I think for a long time and you went there hadn't you hadn't got, gotten to work yet, but for a long time, and even now we, we sort of buy people, physical objects for, for Christmas or as gifts.[00:02:43] And I know games are technically software, but I feel like surely sooner, rather than later, people should start buying. They loved ones, software, like, you know what, why aren't we buying? Like I know it's not as cool, but why aren't you buying like a 12 month subscription to an accounting package for, you know, someone, someone who's really always thought about going into business, but had no idea because there's such a [00:03:05] Hayden: [00:03:05] stigma around it.[00:03:06] I think like giving the physical gift is still what. Do you [00:03:09] Germaine: [00:03:09] do at Christmas time? [00:03:11] Hayden: [00:03:11] Yeah, because I mean, if you unwrapped like a card that says, you've just like got 12 months of like an Adobe creative suite subscription, I'd be like, wow, awesome. [00:03:23] Germaine: [00:03:23] Maybe, maybe you're not enough of a nerd or a geek because I'd be so ecstatic if I got that.[00:03:28] Yeah. [00:03:30] Hayden: [00:03:30] That is true. Yeah, [00:03:31] Germaine: [00:03:31] it might be. I mean, saying that like, even in, even in sort of that more, I don't know how, how do you classify those people who would appreciate it? I don't know how to classify it. I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I don't want to put a label [00:03:43] Hayden: [00:03:43] notice such a yeah. nerd is such an all encompassing term.[00:03:47] I feel like, Oh, there's like a marketing jargan and term for it. Like the early adopters. I feel like those are the people that really speaks to. [00:03:54] Germaine: [00:03:54] Yeah. Good. I don't think software still is an acceptable present or an acceptable gift. I've never gifted software hard and about you. [00:04:04] Hayden: [00:04:04] Uh, I've never done it either.[00:04:05] I've gifted games. And as you said, that's technically software, but I think a lot of these companies need to do a better job of making their software a bit more tangible. [00:04:14] Germaine: [00:04:14] To be honest. Yeah. I mean, I find it weird when you can buy like a Google play. Like it's effectively a gift card, but you can buy like the Spotify subscription or the Google play subscription from, from your local supermarket.[00:04:26] I always see it. And I always think that's, that's so weird. Like we're buying a physical thing for something that is completely digital, completely intangible, but, um, Yeah, you would think that marketers would have sort of come up, come up with a solution for this? Um, much sooner, like, I don't know. I don't know if you can buy like a, even if you could buy like a 3d fortify logo with a coupon [00:04:48] Hayden: [00:04:48] or just like, um, the same sort of, uh, Technology that they use in like contact lists, like Cod [00:04:54] Germaine: [00:04:54] payments and stuff like that.[00:04:56] Hayden: [00:04:56] Yeah. That's the word I was looking for. The things that they put in like a may bows and stuff that you could just tap it and, you know, you're free up your subscription for six months. If you tap it to your phone or something, that would be interesting. We've given up, we've given up the good ideas, [00:05:09] Germaine: [00:05:09] but that's the whole point of the podcast, right?[00:05:11] We always want to give it, give away ideas for free and. That's the whole point. Um, we've digressed a little bit, but before we roll into the actual crux of this, this episode, I should mention, I'm actually recording this episode on the new Mac book pro with the M one processor and Hayden's, um, on his end, um, basically where I'm normally quoting from.[00:05:31] So he's using a CNI 22 Logitech webcam and a hyper, um, HyperX quad cost microphone. Yeah, I was originally going to go with, so I'm going with a webcam from the Mac book, just to see how that looks. Um, we were going to use the microphone from the Mac book, but Hayden on his sensitive was a very echo-y. So I'm just using the Logitech G pro headset and the in-built microphone.[00:05:55] So this can be a bit of a test for that one. I'm actually interested to see though, is what the processing here does. Cause we, this Mac book prior, and one we actually replaced, or this is replacing an Intel MacBook pro the, basically what happened was that the Intel MacBook pro was just overheating a lot and it was quite disappointing, um, especially made zoom calls and this is supposed to run much cooler.[00:06:21] So. We'll talk about it more in, in sort of the middle, middle section of the, um, uh, episode, but just wanted to give that as a heads up. So if you want to check out the video for this episode, go to our YouTube channel link will be in the description. You'll see a comparison of quality. Um, I don't know if you were seeing this on your end, Hayden, but there's a lot of background flickering.[00:06:42] Yeah. [00:06:43] Hayden: [00:06:43] I was going to bring that up and that's sort of like a problem. They still haven't fixed with the inbuilt Canberra is that they don't deal with background light very well. Especially with the person of your complexion. There's a lot of just like contrast between the background and stuff. It's sorta like when you wear a pinstripe shirts.[00:06:59] Germaine: [00:06:59] Yeah. Yeah. It starts to do something weird with the image. [00:07:02] Hayden: [00:07:02] Yeah, exactly. So it's [00:07:04] Germaine: [00:07:04] like I'm coming across fairly, like they're shocked. My skin's coming across fairly well. I, I must say I've seen other like webcams that would, um, sort of darken me a lot because the backgrounds, why am I coming through is clear on this than I am on my end.[00:07:19] Hayden: [00:07:19] You are, you are definitely, but the background is. As I said, quite distracting. So hopefully you need one of those backgrounds that you can do in the zoom call. So it won't be a problem. You can just look on the background, the Paris background, and [00:07:33] Germaine: [00:07:33] you want to use your MacBook pro I mean, it might be the fluorescent lights above us.[00:07:38] We are in an office, so it might be that flicker, but, um, just something to keep you in mind. And as I mentioned, if you want to. Watch the video and see what we're talking about. Go to the YouTube channel, but rolling into it. We were already mentioned the microphone and webcam that we use. Um, Hayden you'll want to quickly talk about, um, the audio HyperX quad cast microphone, really solid audio.[00:08:00] Would you say. [00:08:01] Hayden: [00:08:01] Yeah, it's awesome. Um, couldn't recommend it highly enough. Uh, and just for anecdotal evidence, a lot of the stream is a YouTube is I use, I actually see this mic more often than not. And, um, I just find that an interesting tidbit considering that these guys' whole livelihood is based off, um, audio visual content, and they use it all the time.[00:08:21] I've I had an issue with your audio. Every time I have an issue with audio, it's always guests, um, because of the internet connection, but now this is an awesome. Machine super easy to set up. You just literally plug it in and plop it right in front of you. And you're basically ready to go. [00:08:34] Germaine: [00:08:34] Yeah. Wonderful.[00:08:35] We've talked about it in the past as well. So those are our first two recommendations and that includes the logic, Mike, sorry. [00:08:42] Hayden: [00:08:42] Hm. How much did the micand the webcam cost respectively? [00:08:46] Germaine: [00:08:46] I think the Mike's around the $300 Australian dollar Mark and the webcams around the $200 Australian dollar Mark. So they're not small investments, but they're very, I would say very noticeable, um, investments, especially if you can get enough, enough use out of them.[00:09:01] So if you're going to podcast or, um, stream, I could definitely recommend it. But if you're, you know, hopping on a zoom call once in a while, maybe a notch. [00:09:10] Hayden: [00:09:10] Mm. Hmm. But I mean, even then like $300, I feel like with the way tech prices have inflated recently over the past, you know, 24 months, like $300 is not that big of an investment.[00:09:22] As you said, if you intend to use it. Outside of just calling nun for zoom dinner with them. [00:09:28] Germaine: [00:09:28] Exactly. Exactly. If you can get the use out of it, I think it's very, very much worth it. And, um, I could argue that, you know, rather than spending $150 on a subpar mic, you might as well go all the way and invest into a better quality mic and go from there.[00:09:41] Rolling into further, let's get into sort of hardware first sort of off the bat. We also sort of talked about, or I want to talk about. Computer components. So if you've got someone in your life who likes to build their own systems, if you, if you have to use high powered computers, um, and you like to build like actual PCs, because you can't build your own Macs, the big thing that people think about our graphics cards and CPU's, AMD's new range of CPU's are fantastic for the money.[00:10:06] We just built a new system it's way overkill the new system that we built. Um, Hayden's heard and seen all about it, but if you'll, if you're looking at, you know, computer parts, AMD is the way to go. Um, and then. Graphics cards wise, just look for secondhand graphics cards. If you're in the market, you will know that these graphics cards just like the new gaming consoles, everything's just struggling to stay in stock.[00:10:27] People can't build them fast enough, make them fast enough. So I mean, my, my graphics card in the computer that I use day in, day out for video editing and so on and so forth. He's a two generation old Nvidia 10 80 graphics card. And now at the time it was the top of the line or one below the top of the line.[00:10:43] And those cards are still reiterate really strong. Um, and you can pick them up, you know, for $400, I think in the secondhand market, which is not bad at all [00:10:53] Hayden: [00:10:53] shelf life on a graphics card. Like if you were to say, buy a secondhand middle to high tier graphics card, that's two years old. Like how long can you expect that to last.[00:11:03] Germaine: [00:11:03] Good question. I think you can expect that to last for another two or three years, and it all depends on what you're doing, right? Like if you're gonna, if you're not going to go past, like, you know, maybe like 3d map browsing on a, on a Chrome sort of instance or on Chrome and, or even if you're doing video editing, I think it could, it can very well last year.[00:11:22] Up to 10 years, these things, you know, at some point you might have to go in and update the thermal compound, used to transfer the heat away from the chip itself to the, to the, you know, um, thermal solution, whatever it may be. But, um, I'm not from that. Like even CPU is like, we, we have a bunch of systems that are really quite old, where they were really.[00:11:43] Top of the line back then and they've held out really, really well even today. So secondhand, I think is a really good bet. Um, depending on what components you can get, especially cause everything's sort of out of stock these days, um, you might have better luck sort of looking into the secondhand market.[00:12:00] Um, yeah. Going into more of it then laptops as well. Look for the AMD Ryzen 4,800 H in your laptop. Obviously I'm talking on the PC side, on the Mac book side, the M one chips just came out. I think they're really, really good so far, um, saying that, I mean, Apple did a bit of a dodgy thing with, um, the Intel Mac books.[00:12:22] Um, they didn't really, they basically didn't hook up the, the thermal solution or the cooling solution properly. Um, so they sort of. You know, I hope Apple doesn't Sue me, but they, they artificially restricted the thermal capacity of the Intel laptops with the it's their own solution. Um, and, and, you know, It's looking pretty good so far.[00:12:48] Like we're running zoom right now. There's I mean, there's not even a, I can't even feel any sort of, I'm just feeling around the keyboard. There's just no hate nothing. Wherever the entails. All I have to do, it was booted up and it starts heating up. So, um, yeah, the M ones, I, I, I can't speak highly enough at this point.[00:13:06] Um, yeah. [00:13:07] Hayden: [00:13:07] Um, in saying that though, cause I was talking to you cause I need to upgrade my laptop, but I'll probably buy a Mac at the chagrin of view and everyone around me. But you said to hold off into the second generation, um, and one chip. Okay. Can you talk a bit about that? [00:13:21] Germaine: [00:13:21] Can you speak to that? A little good point.[00:13:23] Good point. So with a lot of technology coming out and this is true, I think about it a little bit because I feel like it's not quite as true with gaming consoles as well with the and the new X-Box is coming out, but yeah. With most technologies just hold off for the first gen, you talked about the early adopters Haden, early adopters, often pay attacks, attacks, um, in air quotes, um, meaning that they usually pay a lot more for the same tech for the technology.[00:13:50] Um, absolutely. But then there was a lot of like there also the testimonials. Right? So that is one thing to look out for. Like if we had our way, I wouldn't have got a first gen M one, but we got to swap. The old laptop or the new one, and might as well go with the M one, considering that we know the older ones are heating up too much, but the suggestion is, and the recommendation is to wait for usually it's within six to 12 months, there's a new version out or the second iteration out.[00:14:17] And by that second iteration, they've learnt so much more. So. These new laptops, the new Mac book pro and ones process with the M one processor. They're the same industrial designer. They're the same physical laptop as the previous generation, which means that Apple haven't thought about, you know, how can we make it slimmer?[00:14:34] How can we add even [00:14:36] Hayden: [00:14:36] optimize and around Al you know, a new processing core. Yeah. [00:14:39] Germaine: [00:14:39] Exactly exactly. And they, they, you know, the next generation could be like, okay, apples, realize we have a lot more room to play with now because X, Y, Z, we'll put in better speakers. We'll put in better microphones or we'll upgrade X, Y, Z features.[00:14:54] So that's, that's what I usually suggest. And that's why I suggested to you Hayden, like, Just hold out and wait until that second gen is out. Yeah. Especially cause you come across to me as the kind of guy, the kind of person to buy something and just, you know, use it for the, for as long as possible, basically till till it breaks.[00:15:14] Hayden: [00:15:14] I mean, that's the thing, that's sort of why I personally have always bought Mac laptops because, because for years and years, all I bought was, you know, lower to mid tier PCs. Um, that didn't last very well, just because the build I found never. It was really what I wanted. It I'm pretty fast and loose with my technology.[00:15:31] I'll throw it around a little bit and it would break and it would just get slow over time. Um, and that didn't really happen until with my Mac book until very recently. But speaking to the point you were talking about before, I think there's also something to be said about software, not being optimized for.[00:15:45] Um, new hardware initially. So, I mean, I can't imagine that all the web browsers that you use currently are already optimized for the M one chip. [00:15:54] Germaine: [00:15:54] Yeah. So Chrome actually had a lot of issues. So, um, Apple has to. Basically what happens is the new M one ships actually fundamentally different a different platform.[00:16:04] So the way you ride ride programs for it, it's different. It's, it's using the technology that it's from a company called arm based out of, um, the UK. And basically it's, it's just a lower power consumption. Cause it's less overhead sort of. When it comes to Korea. So it's what, it's the technology that our, all our phones run on or smart phones run on, which means that when it comes to the older technology or the older software, Apple has had to add a layer of translation.[00:16:30] So basically it translates the old code and lets it run on the new, new sort of. Versus the first, when, when Chrome first came out, it was actually really, really buggy. It was really slow. It was almost like we had, we had, uh, an internet connection that just like a dial up connection saying that Google has been really good and released a native version or a version that doesn't require that sort of coding layer.[00:16:53] Um, yeah. And that has just resulted in a, in a really good experience so far. Now we haven't tried any of the. Creative cloud services or any sort of really hardcore apps. So, no, we haven't tried video editing or anything like that yet. And it'll be interesting to see how that goes on, on this new system.[00:17:10] Hayden: [00:17:10] Well, I mean, they claim that video processing is now seven times faster with the new chip and, uh, image processing is around four times faster. So yeah. It'll be interesting to say how accurate those claims are because Apple having the POS been known to hyperinflate the statistics that they benchmark for their laptops, especially in the battery department.[00:17:29] Germaine: [00:17:29] Oh man. Like even before you get to that, like at the announcement, they, they use graphs at the announcement that didn't label either of the axes. What are you showing by that point? Right? Like books. [00:17:43] Hayden: [00:17:43] Yes. Everything [00:17:44] Germaine: [00:17:44] is going well, actually, funny enough on this graph on one of the graphs, the new processor was trending positive and then it started to taper off and they just cut it off just as it [00:17:57] Hayden: [00:17:57] started.[00:17:57] For example, the diminishing returns. [00:18:00] Germaine: [00:18:00] It doesn't make any sense. So you do make a good point about that. Like they've claimed United five times, five times, days, three times that only time will tell. We also just don't know how people are going to be able to cope for this platform yet. We don't know what sort of limits they're going to hit.[00:18:16] Um, if any, so we'll just have to have to wait and see, but moving on from that, let's talk about phones now. The. New iPhone just came out. Are you on an iPhone 10 or an iPhone X or iPhone 11? Aiden. [00:18:30] Hayden: [00:18:30] I'm on a iPhone Xs, but I've had a good play around with the new iPhone, actually just over the weekend. And men, I'm very tempted to ask Santa for a new iPhone because the camera, the new camera is crazy.[00:18:44] It's easily the best. And I've used the S 20 as well. It is the best camera I've ever. Used on a phone device, like a smartphone, just like the colors are popping out at you. It is so much more lifelike. Um, [00:18:56] Germaine: [00:18:56] what are you probably noticing Hayden also though, just, just as a sort of jumping they're jumping, running, um, apples finally.[00:19:05] Upgraded their devices to have oil panels, um, or led is this technology that you will see in TVs, um, sort of 1500 to $2,000 up. Um, yeah, so that technology is what Sams are being using in their phones for a long time. And a lot of other food manufacturers use as well. It does, it does have like more deeper contrast.[00:19:24] So you're probably noticing that a little bit as well, swapping from your iPhone to, to this new iPhone. Cause your iPhone would be running LCD technology, but yeah, I mean, I must say the iPhone, the new iPhone 12 has looked pretty good, especially because they have a legitimate, like with the 12 mini illegitimate phone that is sort of the old-school small foreign, but take the latest technology.[00:19:43] Um, Saying that we've got an iPhone 11 for the office again, you know, runs fine. Runs. Great. Um, yeah, we saved a fair bit of money just cause I think the cheapest iPhone 11 is $300 cheaper than the cheapest offering 12 from memory [00:20:00] Hayden: [00:20:00] still isn't shaped like that is the thing to keep in mind. I mean, it's, it's ridiculous.[00:20:05] You don't even think about it. Cause I, in my mind still think that if you were to buy a phone outright, it would be a thousand dollars, but now it's almost two and a half times at three times that even nearly four times that if you really want to bump up the Macquarie. Yup. Yup. Yup. Um, but I mean, that's sort of been true of.[00:20:20] All Apple products recently, I can't really think of a time where you weren't paying top dollar for the ubiquity of the product. The design of it, you know, [00:20:29] Germaine: [00:20:29] was sort of the status symbol to an extent as well of having an Apple product, but, you know, switching lanes for something a bit more affordable. Um, if you, if you're happy to go for an Android phone, I think.[00:20:40] The mid range is the real value sort of proposition at this point. Um, I mean, obviously you can buy an older iPhone as well. I think that's, that's a really smart, smart move. Um, because Apple guarantees, um, software updates for years and years, I think it's about five years. So that's a good bet. Any of the mid range, Samsung's a really good bet.[00:20:57] And the pixel phones by Google, in my opinion, the Google pixels are sort of a nice. I mean, they still run Android, but they're sort of a bit more simplified. So it's almost having like an Apple device and it's a happy medium [00:21:11] Hayden: [00:21:11] for sure. Yeah, [00:21:12] Germaine: [00:21:12] yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's yeah, it's sort of a nice balance, right?[00:21:15] It's it takes good photos. It's a smaller device. Um, it's fast enough. And the best thing, um, I think about them is that you can get one for around the thousand dollar Mark, which. As you sort of alluded to, can't be said for even newer Samsungs itself, over a thousand bucks. And that's the thing it does.[00:21:34] Hayden: [00:21:34] Well, they do serve like an, uh, an important part of the market because lack a lot of things in hardware. The middle is falling out where you either get something that just does his job. That's worth like $200, $300, or you're paying for the top of the line, um, smartphone with the best processes, or you have to go to the secondhand market, which a lot of people are uncomfortable with for obvious reasons.[00:21:56] Germaine: [00:21:56] Yeah. And, and then you look at, you know, the telco providers and the way all the, all the new find plants have shaken up. And there's just not, not a lot of value there. So yeah, a lot of decisions to make on that front. But I think, you know, if you wanted something for, I think the cheapest pixel sells for about $800.[00:22:14] It's not cheap, still. That's a lot of money. Um, um, and if you had to pick, I think between, uh, Good laptop and a good, good phone. I would pick the good laptop personally, just cause you can be a lot more productive on there. Um, and being smart about what you, what are going to use the device for, I would always go a laptop and we'll talk about some software recommendations, um, later on as well.[00:22:34] That'll let you again, I think you can really capitalize on that software on a good laptop. Phones are really, really good, but at the end of the day, you're limited by screen size and you're limited just by the amount of productivity that you can push. [00:22:48] Hayden: [00:22:48] Well, if you were going to give someone advice on, you know, I'm starting on my business, um, it's not necessarily like what you do in terms of like design and marketing, but it is like a consumer facing business where you're going to have to, you know, use zero.[00:23:01] You're going to have to use word processing software. What would you suggest they get is a computer solution? Would they get a desktop? Would they get a laptop? Would that like one custom built. [00:23:12] Germaine: [00:23:12] So I go, I would say a laptop, unless just because you can buy one product that has a keyboard and is portable, has a monitor in build.[00:23:21] So you're good keyboard. It's two to $300. A good monitor is at least $300. So you're saving $600 just, just straight off the bat. I think you can spend. You know, early two thousands, like as in 1000 and something dollars under 1500 and ended up with something that is just a work horse, especially if you look for something with the, with the new AMD processes.[00:23:43] I mean, even the new Intel processes are really good, but that's what I would recommend. Um, okay. And, you know, and then we can touch on and we will touch on some of the software that you, that you mentioned as well, Hayden, that, you know, the software that you can run on this new device, this hypothetical device, we will try and maybe look around and recommend some, um, some devices in the description as well.[00:24:04] Or just find some links from an eye on the place, keeping in mind that when this episode goes out, You'll be seeing black Friday sales already coming up. If not, if not, you know, coming up very soon. So, um, just something to keep in mind. They're now rolling into headphones. Um, I see sort of three categories here.[00:24:21] One is headphones for like voice and for calling another, for like wireless earphones that you can just pocket and then the other for headphones for like an audio listening experience. Yep. Getting getting to the first one with the audio sort of microphone. Good audio kind of if gaming headset or voice calling headset.[00:24:43] Um, I couldn't recommend these logic decks in half. Um, same logic J pro. I think it's been replaced with a new version, just really good, really comfortable for long periods of use steel series make really good headsets as well. So if you've got a game or in your life or someone who does a lot of, um, sort of phone calls and you know, are looking for.[00:25:04] Just really good audio solution. So because with a lot of the wireless headsets, they're so far away from your mouth, that the audio is okay, but it's, you know, it's nowhere near like world-class or you really need something. That's going to run a boom mic right near your mouth and get the audio that way.[00:25:22] So those are the recommendations there. The steel series Octa series is really, really fantastic. I went through sort of a month to two months of trying to find these act like the right headset for me. And logic just came out on top for that. Wireless headsets. Do you have airports yourself, Hayden? [00:25:38] Hayden: [00:25:38] Yeah, I do.[00:25:38] I do have AirPods. Um, I think they're really good are a lot. They honestly exceeded my expectations. I didn't buy them personally. I got them as a gift, but awesome battery life. I have to charge them maybe once a week, twice a week. And I use them all the time. Use them exercising, have got them wet. Um, like they're just awesome.[00:25:57] The only problem that I'm having now, it seems is. As I've used the product a lot, the Bluetooth connectivity starts to get a bit messed up. I don't know whether that's because I'm constantly swapping between my car Bluetooth and to the AirPods. Cause they don't disconnect once another Bluetooth device is connected.[00:26:17] So that gets a bit mixed up and I'll have to reset the AirPods and disconnect them. But that's really my only complaint. About them so far. They're awesome. They're really fragile. They're really easy to lose the find my iPhone integration with the AirPods is terrible because it only shows the laws. It only shows you the last place that you've connected.[00:26:36] To the, like, to the earphones, which would be when you had them in your ear, you know, it's a bit like your mom, your mom's saying like, Oh, when was the, when was the last time you saw the thing that you lost? It's like, well, if I knew mum, they wouldn't be lost. [00:26:49] Germaine: [00:26:49] Exactly. No, that's a fair point, [00:26:51] Hayden: [00:26:51] but they're good, but definitely not the value for money solution.[00:26:55] I think if you wanted, if you weren't married to the Apple brand and you didn't want to pay that premium, I would go the Sony, a wireless ones. I forget the name, but. I think they are feel some dead air while I look at these. [00:27:08] Germaine: [00:27:08] Yeah. What, what, what, what are you looking at? I think if you're on the Android side, I had the original galaxy buds.[00:27:14] Um, when I got my new phone, I got the new galaxy buds, plus again, I could not recommend them enough. I think they're really, really good. People have spoken about poor noise canceling on the galaxy buds live. I just don't find that to be true. I will wear it like while mowing the lawn. Um, and like, it really cuts out a lot of the noise.[00:27:32] It's not, it's not beautiful. Like it's not perfect. It's not sort of going to drown everything out, but they're really nice. Um, and then the original galaxy buds, I think you can pick up for around 150 Australian dollars, which I just think for that sort of money, you really can't go wrong. It's not cheap.[00:27:47] But you're getting a product from a, um, a really good company, um, a trusted company and I would say really quite good, good solution. What were the headwinds? [00:27:59] Hayden: [00:27:59] Uh, the, sorry. uh, really good. Um, data's a pair of them. They're awesome. He's the most of the time, uh, when he's walking and stuff and he uses them for zoom calls.[00:28:10] Yeah. Awesome. Um, and the thing is. Speaking to your point that you just brought up. I actually don't mind investing a lot of money into my audio experience just because, I mean, I put it down to, if you listen to music for four hours a day, you know, or you just listen to podcasts, audio stuff, YouTube videos, Netflix, on your phone for four hours a day.[00:28:30] I mean, that's 28 hours a week. You put that over a year. That's a lot of time that you're going to be listening to stuff you want a good experience and this stuff typically, if you don't lose it and you keep it in good Nick. It'll last you two to three is [00:28:43] Germaine: [00:28:43] exactly. Yeah. I mean, I've spent originally when I got into the wireless ear phones, I spent $120 on a, on a blue rant product.[00:28:51] That just, just was so bad that JB Hi-Fi actually just refunded me the money on that one. Um, yeah. So for another $30, you can get something that you know is going to give you a good experience. Good battery life. I agree with you. You might as well sort of go, go that route. Um, moving on to cameras, um, and studio equipment, I think with cameras again, if you're, if you really want good quality, I would go for a DSLR, my, my personal preferences for anything from cannon.[00:29:20] Um, if you can get something that you can fit the Canon 50 mil. Portrait lens for like $200 for the, for the lens itself, you end up with a really good sort of base. Uh, photography solution. Um, yeah, some of the canons for very, very little money, you can get 4k video as well, I think for under the thousand dollar Mark.[00:29:42] So yeah, couldn't recommend that enough. [00:29:44] Hayden: [00:29:44] So why Canon over Nikon? And there are the main competitors, cause I noticed that you're pretty married to the brand and you have been busy. [00:29:52] Germaine: [00:29:52] My first camera was a Nikon, but that was, and then I got a. Cannon. And I haven't looked back since, so since that first cannon we've got another two or three cannons, um, they've burnt tens of thousands of dollars from us.[00:30:05] But, um, the beauty with cannon is that they've got an extensive, extensive, I guess, ecosystem of lenses. So yeah. That's the big thing. [00:30:14] Hayden: [00:30:14] The ancillary products you would call them? Yeah. [00:30:17] Germaine: [00:30:17] The products that re I mean, you know, I would argue that the law, when it comes to a camera, you're buying sort of the camera.[00:30:24] Is only enabling you to use a lens at the end of the day, that lens. [00:30:29] Hayden: [00:30:29] Yeah, [00:30:29] Germaine: [00:30:29] exactly. And I mean, you know, a good lens. I prefer a good lens over a good camera body every single day, because that's going to be a better product. Right? Like you, you don't want necessarily a good printer if you bought bad ink for it, you'd want.[00:30:43] Yeah. But you might prefer good ink over a better printer because at the end of the day, if the. Blacks are going to be deeper, even if it takes longer to print, it's going to be a better solution than a quick printing. [00:30:55] Hayden: [00:30:55] Exactly. Yeah. [00:30:56] Germaine: [00:30:56] So [00:30:57] Hayden: [00:30:57] what's the starting price. [00:30:58] Germaine: [00:30:58] Oh, I mean, I think you're looking at about $800 for the body with cannons.[00:31:03] I mean, all DSLRs, they're all sort of whether you go cannon or whether you go Nick on you're going to be spending at least a thousand dollars, but that's, that's just where I would start. I mean, you can get the, you can get a Canon with a. With a lens for about six 50, but that's just bottom of the barrel.[00:31:20] That's sort of, you know, Canon sort of almost predatory like, Oh, you know, um, someone wanted their first camera heard the DSLRs are good and heard the Canon's good. So we're going to have a really, really cheap product. Yeah, step it up from there. I mean, even if you get that and get one of those 15 mil portrait lenses, I just feel like you can't go wrong.[00:31:38] Just that lens just changes how an image looks through whatever camera is shooting from. So, yeah, that's, that's my big recommendation there. And then the, uh, Sony RX 100 series, if you're looking for something more pocketable, but still quite capable. So those are the two there. And then if you're looking at.[00:31:56] Studio equipment. I would tell you to turn to Amazon or eBay and just start off with like a hundred, 150 bucks for a kit, like a bunch of lens. Um, a bunch of lights. I just think as a starting point, we use that for, I think about two years before we really started to upgrade our equipment. And when it gets to that, similar to that 50 mil lens that I mentioned.[00:32:16] That lends us 200 bucks. The next step up from that was $2,000. So you're looking at a huge chasm. Um, with the lights, you know, we bought a lighting kit for, I think it was 150 bucks. The next light, just the light alone was 500. And then you had to buy a stand for three 50. So you're looking at it. And that was just a single.[00:32:36] Light. Right. So you look at 10 times more for, for more or less the same thing. But you know, obviously by that point, we, we [00:32:45] Hayden: [00:32:45] need, you would hope to be like, yeah, you'd have to be generating some revenue off a purchase that big, or you would just filthy rich and you can afford, [00:32:53] Germaine: [00:32:53] well, w what, for us, it was, and I have this theory of you use something and when you start to push, push the boundaries of that thing, if it takes you two years, I think that's worth it.[00:33:02] Obviously, if you start to use something and then we didn't. Two weeks you start pushing the boundaries. You're just wasting money by that point, [00:33:08] Hayden: [00:33:08] which is probably what you'd be doing with those entry level products you were talking about before, you know, the, the 600 old cameras versus the $800 cameras.[00:33:16] Germaine: [00:33:16] Exactly. So you might as well spend another 30, 40% end up with something that's going to last. She like that first Nikon. I outgrew that within six months. But then the DSLR that I bought, um, I think I didn't upgrade it for five years. Um, and even, even now it's still within the family. My brother uses it, you know, so that, that's just something to keep in mind that.[00:34:24] Now Hayden, this one's quicker. Hopefully. Um, the first one that we'd want to talk about was sort of workflow organization tools, um, uh, is, is really, really good. I've heard good things about monday.com as well, but we use Pluto in a house. Pluto has just fantastic, really affordable and really good. If you actually look at getting into business for yourself, because it has like invoicing time tracking.[00:34:48] All that built in. So that's sort of a big one, not much else to say there, we use it. We like it. The phone apps, aren't that great. But saying that when we're billing and when we're doing work, we're in front of a computer. So we use it through that. That means anyway, then sort of getting into the email side of things and getting into chat messaging tools within the team.[00:35:08] We're really embedded into G suite. Google Hangouts. Do you have Google Hangouts on your iPhone Hayden? [00:35:14] Hayden: [00:35:14] And it works perfectly. Um, the messaging, the messaging is basically as well optimized as any messaging app I have on my phone. Um, the video conferencing functionality works. Very well, I mean, it's good as FaceTime, so, which is Apple's, [00:35:30] Germaine: [00:35:30] you know?[00:35:32] Hayden: [00:35:32] Yeah. I can't speak highly enough of it. Uh, yeah, I say all that to say, Google Hangouts, Google, basically the G suite, the extension of it they've done and how well it integrates with docs, uh, which we already use a fair bit is just so awesome. That would be my goal. If you, if you weren't as ingrained in Google's ecosystem.[00:35:51] Maybe it would not be as valuable to you if you didn't use Gmail, if you didn't use all these other products, but it's just another good extension of their current product line. [00:36:00] Germaine: [00:36:00] Yeah, definitely. And we like, we've really like, instead of using Slack and then an email solution, and then some then zoom, we've really sort of, when I say invested, we've really invested time because you, you play or pay like for Google workspaces as, as they re-read the G suite now, and you get access to a base amount of all those apps anyway.[00:36:22] So you might as well use it. We're not, we're not going to pay more or less. You can pay more, but that's for more like more storage and things like that. So. Definitely definitely recommended. Um, yeah. [00:36:33] Hayden: [00:36:33] Oh, I just quickly, before I jump off, I think there is something to be said about. Having your workflow management systems all centralized in one place because I find it pretty ironic that at one point we were using all these different programs basically to organize ourselves, but then we'd have to organize the organizing programs.[00:36:50] Like we'd have to, you know, all tab between three different things. And I was getting lost in where the passwords were held versus where, you know, my tasks were and you know, where w where I would put. You know, my completed task and it was all very confusing. But now that we use, uh, J suede or what do they call it now?[00:37:08] Sorry, [00:37:08] Germaine: [00:37:08] go workspaces. [00:37:10] Hayden: [00:37:10] Workspaces. It's a good solution. [00:37:12] Germaine: [00:37:12] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like you just, it just makes a lot of sense. I think there's something that could be said for minimalism when it comes to task management and that's, I think what we're getting at next one, sort of a few things in one, which is graphic design, video editing, photo editing.[00:37:28] You've heard this before. You're going to hear it again. Adobe creative cloud. There's just no way to get past. Adobe creative cloud. If you want all those things, it's not the cheapest thing out there, but you know, just looking at again, integrated solution that works together. Um, and if you want to, you know, if you.[00:37:46] Put some actual money in that time saving and that like just integration. I think creative cloud is the way to go saying that for video editing, DaVinci resolve is fantastic. And then final cut is final cut of paid program. [00:38:03] Hayden: [00:38:03] Hates it is. [00:38:04] Germaine: [00:38:04] Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you've got to spend a bit of money there, I guess, [00:38:07] Hayden: [00:38:07] and it is quite expensive.[00:38:09] I will double check that, but the last time I checked, which was pretty recently, it was. A paid program, [00:38:15] Germaine: [00:38:15] a pay program. Yeah, that's what it's looking like now I'm just looking it up myself. Wow. Four 99. Yeah. Okay. And then that's what annual is it? [00:38:24] Hayden: [00:38:24] No. No. [00:38:25] Germaine: [00:38:25] Okay. That's okay. At least, but that's a lot of money.[00:38:28] Hayden: [00:38:28] Yeah. Um, but I think with all these high end editing software suites, they got to be expensive. And I think that's why you're seeing so many middle tier sort of solutions come in and say shape people's needs for a very quick branded content creation, um, you know, [00:38:44] Germaine: [00:38:44] market material. [00:38:46] Hayden: [00:38:46] Yeah. Yeah. Just sort of, because not only do, is there a money investment in using the Adobe suite and the other software suites that you mentioned, there is actually a time investment to getting to know these programs, because you could use them for six months for a couple of hours a day, and you still wouldn't know even half maybe of the whole functionality.[00:39:07] Germaine: [00:39:07] Exactly. Which is crazy. But, but, but you know, they've got a lot of fun, like, like you say, like. There's a reason they can justify that sort of spend, I would say. Oh [00:39:18] Hayden: [00:39:18] yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And do you get a discount if you use them for business purposes? Like if you do private, [00:39:25] Germaine: [00:39:25] no pay, you pay full price for business.[00:39:27] Um, you do get a discount if you're using it as student though. So there shouldn't be discounts. Like really get into that. [00:39:34] Hayden: [00:39:34] And that's the same with the laptops as well. Just quickly going to say [00:39:37] Germaine: [00:39:37] yes, Apple education store, uh, sampling education as well. You can get, um, I mean, most Apple products have a, have a student discount of, I think 10%, um, which is.[00:39:47] Hayden: [00:39:47] Oh, which is in some cases like $250, $300, which I can buy you. Extended warranty or [00:39:54] Germaine: [00:39:54] Apple capitalism. Yeah, one recommended I think, I think, you know, quickly talking about the warranty side of things, generally speaking, um, there's a proven to be like in business models where. You know, if you upset a warranty, there's a commission involved, the person selling it.[00:40:10] They commission usually ends up being like 80% of the value sometimes. So yeah, it, that goes to show that there's not real, like they're no expecting to actually spend, or that that warranty is not going to cost them money. So it's something to keep in mind, but, you know, [00:40:24] Hayden: [00:40:24] and they have really cracked down on what's claimable.[00:40:27] And what's not, I knew a couple of friends who have had like water damaged laptops that. Back in 2016, that would just send you a new phone that would send you basically something from the door. There wouldn't be a big rigmarole about filling out forms or getting police reports. But now it's a bit, it's a lot more, a lot more of a process they've really cracked it down.[00:40:49] So it's probably not worth well, [00:40:52] Germaine: [00:40:52] I would say instead look into getting a credit card that, you know yeah. Um, ads warranty on like when you make a purchase through it. That's what, that's what I did. I, I struck it lucky and got one that for the life of the card would have no annual fee. I think traditionally it would be like $150, 300 annual dollar annual fee.[00:41:09] And that's what I do. That's what I, um, that's what I sort of use to buy everything, even if the business, and then I just pay myself back because there's just a lot of value there. Moving moving on from that. If you look at getting a website set up, now we love WordPress. We are WordPress advocates, but again, it's one of those tools where just like creative cloud, unless you know, really what to do with it.[00:41:32] You barely scratch the surface and WordPress is free. But I think where you, where you pay for lack of a better word in air quotes is in time. If you don't know what you're doing, it took me. I think. Five to 10 years to get, you know, get a full understanding of WordPress and what it's capable of. And I still don't, I personally don't necessarily know how to use it, get to talk to Damien who's our lead developer to really start sort of leveraging WordPress.[00:41:58] And even then he's sort of like, there's still more to go. So, um, WordPress is amazing. It's super powerful, but you know, just, just something that you need to upskill yourself with. [00:42:10] Hayden: [00:42:10] So what do you start if you want to. Basically learn. You don't have to get into the weeds of it, but you know, I've come up to you.[00:42:18] I want to get into it. Where do I stop? [00:42:20] Germaine: [00:42:20] I would say, um, get something like a flywheel, um, yeah, local by flywheel, which is like a local yeah. Aggressive development environment. Or just sign up for like a free, free web hosting account. Yeah. It get installed WordPress on there and just start playing around.[00:42:36] That's that's my recommendation. Yeah. Turned to the YouTube, like not just for WordPress, for, for anything turned to YouTube. There's some really good free tutorials and content up there that you should look into. And if you don't want to go down that road, turn to something like Shopify or Squarespace, um, to, to build your website.[00:42:53] But you know, don't touch weeks Weebly, I would say, you know, no offense to anyone using it, but yeah. Uh, I would pick Shopify and Squarespace before those other solutions, [00:43:02] Hayden: [00:43:02] just, yeah, especially, um, a lot of the people who we've talked to have run pretty successful e-commerce businesses who have actually, you know, I would not call them small businesses now with the amount of revenue they generate, a lot of them just use Shopify and basically link to that store from Instagram.[00:43:20] And have basically found a lot of success doing that. So, and, and I sort of stop gap solution until you get to a point where you need a custom built website, that's going to do a better job of. Generating traffic and making sure the leads you generate are actually turned into sales. I think Shopify is a totally fine solution and it's pretty inexpensive.[00:43:41] Germaine: [00:43:41] Exactly. Compare. Yeah. Given what you, what you get out of it it's yeah. It's, it's an expensive for sure. And especially if you look at, you know, comparing that against, um, a custom sort of development solution, um, Oh yeah. That you know, but then again, by the time you look at customer solutions, I think you need to have a proven business model generating really good revenue.[00:44:02] And you're now looking at, you know, let's take this thing up a notch rather than, um, let's get a web presence for my business. [00:44:10] Hayden: [00:44:10] So how much would you say, like taking it up a notch would cause say that I've, I've hit the end of the road with my Shopify business. I actually want to get something custom built for me and.[00:44:23] You know, it's not going to be extravagant, but it's going to be your basic e-commerce site. How much would that cost [00:44:29] Germaine: [00:44:29] now? How long has a piece of string, but, but yeah, just ballpark of an average, average sort of website and you look at a custom developed solution. Locally. So not outsourced, you know, not, not sort of getting coded by questionable people who have access to your website that you're, you know, that has financial information of your customers.[00:44:47] Things like that locally, you're looking at at least $10,000. So at least the five figure Mark, you can very comfortably get way up there. Um, So that's what I mean, like, you need to be generating revenue. You need to be looking at this as an investment. It's not sort of the 30, 40, $50 that you'd be paying to something like Shopify or Squarespace, um, by, but by this point, you know, you need to be so time poor, that it doesn't make sense for you to mess around with a website.[00:45:14] You need to. Be so time poor because you're selling you're, you know, you're working so much in your business that you need to worry more about how can I, um, you know, optimize my checkout process? How can I make sure that customers are really happy getting, getting what they want shipped in time? You know, by the time you're talking about like an e-commerce or a custom solution, Your you've you've legitimized.[00:45:37] I legitimatized your business. Um, [00:45:40] Hayden: [00:45:40] rather than top 10% of online businesses, if you [00:45:45] Germaine: [00:45:45] you're generating proper revenue, right. You're earning like a folk full-time income. You're not, you're not sort of, um, yeah. [00:45:53] Hayden: [00:45:53] Yeah. Which is in the top top of people who sell stuff online. [00:45:57] Germaine: [00:45:57] I mean, it's very rare. Very difficult [00:45:59] to [00:45:59] Hayden: [00:45:59] do.[00:45:59] Yeah, yeah, [00:46:00] Germaine: [00:46:00] yeah, yeah. Um, Moving on from that as an extension, I guess is email marketing solutions. Now, straight off the bat, if you've got a WordPress site, um, male poet is this amazing plugin that you can use to send emails off your WordPress site. Um, but for the most, for the most part, you'll be using something like MailChimp, which we still recommend.[00:46:20] We have a client who sends, I think they've got maybe 20,000 contacts on their email list. So, um, these MailChimp. Amazing tool really like, you know, the, these guys send, I think, five to 10,000 emails a day. So very robust, very, very cheap. Given how many emails you can send out of that and how many people you can reach as well.[00:46:43] So, um, MailChimp and then mail poet, if you're on a WordPress site, um, Going into the other few things that we've noted, social media management platforms. I'm not a huge fan of necessarily using those platforms. I could switch for things like that, especially just starting off, just, just, just post natively.[00:47:03] A lot of platforms prefer when you just go on Facebook and post onto Facebook. Yeah. But just keep that in mind. Um, Yep. [00:47:11] Hayden: [00:47:11] I think engage, I think engagement is a big thing when it comes to social media, because that's the whole point of using the platform. Right. And I think at least me personally, when I've used scheduling, uh, sweets, the big problem I find is that when you set it and forget it, you're not going back to.[00:47:27] Be part of the conversation and actually interact, which is going to not only help you do better in the algorithms of these platforms, but it's actually going to create meaningful dialogue between you and, you know, the whole point of content marketing basically is to create that like value exchange.[00:47:43] And if you're not there. To be part of that exchange is sort of failing, um, the whole point. [00:47:48] Germaine: [00:47:48] Exactly. And then w when you just set and forget as well, I think you compromise, um, the timeliness of, of what you're saying as well. Like you don't take into account, um, Sort of everything that's happening around you.[00:48:02] So just, just sort of a bit of a, a word of caution, not necessarily saying don't do it, but just saying, just keep that in mind as something getting into royalty-free music and image providers, there are. Bunch of websites, especially for images and stock video as well. Um, like Pixabay, Pexels, there's a lot, we'll again, we've written an article about it in the past.[00:48:25] So we'll link to that in the description, um, in the show notes. So you will be able to just click through and find, find the, um, Image providers that we recommend. Um, royalty-free music is a little bit harder. YouTube has a really good, um, library there that, again, we'll link to that YouTube library of audio that you can use for, um, your YouTube videos.[00:48:47] I believe rural to fee music is a bit harder to find it, but it's sort of thing where you can find people on SoundCloud or on YouTube and just say, Hey, you know, I'll give you a credit. Can I use, use your audio. That's what I would recommend. Anything that you can add to that one? [00:49:02] Hayden: [00:49:02] Um, I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to.[00:49:05] If you want to find a royalty free music, you're going to have to go digging and find producers and artists who are not well-known, um, are putting this stuff out on band camp, on SoundCloud who are just happy for the look. Um, and if you can sort of paint it like that, if you have a platform where a lot of people will be listening to their stuff, they usually more than happy to help you out, but be very careful about making sure that the music that you're actually using is royalty free and that it's not.[00:49:36] Uh, a redo of someone else's stuff, and then they [00:49:39] Germaine: [00:49:39] could get color or something like that, [00:49:41] Hayden: [00:49:41] because that's the thing, like if you were to use. Someone's music for, you know, in your podcast, for example, when your podcasts inter um, from my understanding, they would basically be able to get a good cut of the revenue of all the revenue generated from that RSS feed, which would be pretty bad.[00:49:59] If you realize, you know, a hundred episodes into the show that you created. Um, that was your baby. [00:50:05] Germaine: [00:50:05] Yeah. And you've been using illegal music essentially. Um, and you know, depending on how good their lawyer is, like Hayden said, they can turn around and go, listen, you, you profited from my work. Now pay me. How much did you make?[00:50:18] I'll take X percentage of, of that and, you know, legal fees or whatever it may be now. So treat that when it comes to the logos images, I mean, anything that someone else created, please. Please respect that work that they've done and treat that as, you know, physical, like, like physical theft, just, just because it's intellectual or digital doesn't mean it's not theft.[00:50:39] It is that [00:50:41] Hayden: [00:50:41] I, and that goes for everything now. Um, even if you have reposting someone's, you know, artwork that they did, um, you gotta make sure you credit them because I feel like now in the, in the climate, in the online climate that we're facing in 2020, um, people are going to get up for that and it really makes your brand look.[00:50:58] Um, quite shocking if you're just taking people's stuff and we're trying to pass it off as your own. [00:51:02] Germaine: [00:51:02] Exactly. Like even someone's Instagram images, like respect it, even if it has your product in it, just reach out and say, Hey, you know, you bought from me, you posted about this. I really liked it. Like your post.[00:51:15] Can I use that image on my own feed? I'll credit you? Um, or yeah, if you don't credit them, can I use my image and that image on my feed? Um, yeah, the last one is a bit of a. Bit of a favorite of mine, which is online portfolios or, um, like websites that you can turn to there's websites out there that basically rank other websites or are a hub for really interesting looking websites.[00:51:38] Um, interesting logos people essentially have their, um, have their like portfolios on there. [00:51:46] Hayden: [00:51:46] Yeah. It's, it's a place basically where you can get inspiration from other creators and basically a way to curate your content and hopefully. Get people to look at it and like your stuff, and then you can generate, you know, freelance work for yourself or for your business.[00:52:00] Um, that's their ultimate purpose. [00:52:02] Germaine: [00:52:02] Exactly. And, and, you know, th th those sites are, are be hands and dribble. Again, we'll link to them. Um, if you're in this space, you've probably heard of them already. The hands was, yeah. Purchased by Adobe a little while ago. So, um, it's clear that there's a lot of value in those sites, um, or someplace to look for inspiration or some place as well to see if someone else has come up with the idea before.[00:52:24] Um, or if you're stuck, like if you're stuck for a color palette, a nice place to look at for inspiration, and then there's brand new, which is an awesome blog fit, basically daily posts about new logos and new branding so that you can sort of stay. Stay up on what's happening in that space and educate self and inform yourself [00:52:45] Hayden: [00:52:45] and just jumping off from that.[00:52:46] I always think, uh, Look at subreddits for information on, you know, your, your specific discipline, um, whether it be brand logo creation, whether it be website design, there's a subreddit for everything. And they usually have a weekly showcase link where you can put your stuff and you can get feedback from people who have, you know, industry veterans who are able to give you actionable advice on, you know, why your stuff might not be good, whether it is good, whether you should be charging.[00:53:14] For your stuff at this point, like how much you can charge. Uh, I can't recommend that sort of stuff highly enough. [00:53:20] Germaine: [00:53:20] I think the beauty with, um, Reddit especially is that it's user generated content and it's not necessarily like it's not a business generated content. Um, so there's a lot of value to be placed in being able to talk and being able to have a conversation and engage with.[00:53:36] People who are in the same boat as you, um, or work in that same position as you and have that expertise. So I think that's a, it's a fantastic way to end this absurd Hayden. Um, everything that we talked about will be in the show notes, we'll be in the description. You can go check it out, um, check out the links, um, and let us know what you think.[00:53:56] Let us, let us know if we, if we missed some, some website or some app that you really like, and you use all the time, um, Let us know. Um, that's, that's it from me. Any parting words from you? Hayden, [00:54:11] Hayden: [00:54:11] have a happy holidays guys. Um, don't go crazy shopping out there. Uh, on the black Friday on the black Friday sales, don't get trampled, [00:54:19] Germaine: [00:54:19] save, save some money for the new year and, um, being your resolutions come true.[00:54:24] All right. Yep. Exactly. Thanks. Thanks for that, Hayden. Um, and thanks for listening. Talk to you on the next episode.
Thursday Nov 19, 2020
Thursday Nov 19, 2020
On this episode of the podcast, we chat with the co-founder of Base Soaps, Lianne Brink. Lianne and her life partner Mick started their company almost four years ago as a “passion project”, with the hope it would eventually generate some additional household income. The couple had no idea that in just a few years their small family business would evolve into one of Canberra’s most successful social enterprises.
As Lianne highlights throughout the episode, the rapid success of Base Soaps is largely attributed to how well her business acumen complimented her partner’s product knowledge and people skills. Naturally, a great deal of this episode touches on what it is like starting and operating a company with your spouse, and the unique problems attached to such an arrangement. Additionally, Lianna discusses how she was able to get Base Soaps products into the hands of suppliers despite having an extremely limited budget and no industry connections. As the episode concludes, Lianne touches on the importance of social enterprises and how important the assistance of organisations such as Mill House Ventures was to the growth of her business.
What we talk about
How to break into the market, get your products into the hands of suppliers, and conduct market research
Running a business with your spouse
What it means to be a socially responsible company
Links from this episode
https://www.basesoaps.com.au/ (Base Soaps Website)
https://www.facebook.com/basesoaps/ (Base Soaps on Facebook)
https://www.instagram.com/basesoaps/ (Base Soaps on Instagram)
Find us elsewhere
https://futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe Website)
https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)
https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)
https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors
Germaine: [00:00:00] Hello, future tribe. Welcome to another episode on this one. We have Lianne from Base Soaps. Tell me a bit, a bit, a bit about what you guys do, uh, Lianne. [00:00:59] Lianne: [00:00:59] Sure. Um, thank you very much for having me on the podcast. So in my, um, company, um, is called Base Soaps, which I, um, run together with my, uh, my life and business.[00:01:12] and we produce and sell art sites, shampoo, bars, conditioned bars, and also liquid sites and, um, shaving sites and yeah. Base Soaps as a social enterprise, we started, we started this in early 2017, as they, as we felt. Very excited to, um, about the idea of starting a family business, um, kind of, uh, on the side business at the time and make heads been, um, had made so a few years earlier as, as a Christmas present for his brother.[00:01:47] And so he had kind of had looked into it and knew how to do it. So, yeah, we decided that would be a good, a good idea for, for a small business and, and just started from there. [00:01:57] Germaine: [00:01:57] Why soaps? Um, I, when I think about soaps, I think of, you know, it's in sort of the fast moving consumer goods. Section of the market.[00:02:06] And from what I understand about soaps, um, just like a lot of commodity products, you really need to be selling at mass to make any sort of actual money and have a business, um, around it. You know, um, Unilever for example, is a company that comes to mind when I think about soaps. Why, why did you guys think, you know, you want to get into, into that, that sort of game?[00:02:29] Lianne: [00:02:29] Well, at the time we really were in a, like a, the, the big business mind space at all. We just wanted something that would enable us to start a business that would also enable us to start quiet on small scale, because we, we had a little baby and we had a mortgage, so we didn't want the, we were risk adverse, I guess.[00:02:48] And. Yeah, because, um, so it makes a chemist by trade. So he first started making, you don't have to be, but it does come in handy, you know, with better how things react the way they doing things like that. So we felt like that was for us a good way to start and, and you're right. I think it does. It you'd have to.[00:03:07] Her. So it almost to make it like the big money, but you know, businesses come in all sizes and for us, this was just a good, a good way to start and yeah. [00:03:17] Germaine: [00:03:17] Sort of get your foot in, even sort of start playing around with the idea of having your own business, I guess, in a way that, um, is not going to be too soon, but sort of starting off with something.[00:03:29] So now I get what you mean. It's I guess business doesn't always have to be about making money or making huge. Huge profits. It can, it can be about, you know, making some decent money and having something that you can do on the side. Um, you mentioned when you got started in 2017, that this, it was more of a side hustle, is that fair to say?[00:03:49] Lianne: [00:03:49] Yes, because it was so small and it takes. Um, a few years, you usually with a small business to make any profits, we were, we had other jobs and we would, um, yeah, as an extra thing with the stock. [00:04:02] Germaine: [00:04:02] So were you sort of working for, were both of you working full-time and then doing this after hours to start off with, or?[00:04:09] Lianne: [00:04:09] Um, so I was working part-time as well. I'm working part time. So yeah, it gives us a bit more space to do this as well. [00:04:18] Germaine: [00:04:18] Yeah. Yeah, because I could imagine that there would have been a lot of experimentation at the start, let alone thinking about the whole marketing side of things, but you would have had to experiment with, um, compositions and, you know, flavors.[00:04:31] So the lack of a better word, sort of the, the different options. How did you make those decisions initially? Did you just sort of go with one. Skew or did you have, did you just open up with a whole bunch of options for customers [00:04:46] Lianne: [00:04:46] right. From the start I had in my mind that I wanted it to be a very kind of a simple and plain Brent, it not too many options.[00:04:53] So we started with three and I remember that the one that we really wanted to start with the lemon Myrtle. And, uh, because I think a lot of people really liked that and it's always been one of our most popular products. So that was fun. That was. Donald, we were, we were doing that one and the other two, I can't quite remember, but I think we just played around and get some feedback.[00:05:15] When we started, we had one store in our hometown that we knew was interested in selling it. So we would have got feedback from them and, you know, thought about what we wanted to make. And yeah, it just went from there and it very quickly though, already banded out through, I think. Six spots. Six different sense.[00:05:36] So, because we were like, thinking, this is my spot too, and this is a nice one too. So we didn't keep it as simple as I had in my mind. But you know, you want to cater for everyone. Yeah. And we started quickly using different types of exposure and dispel. We use like Walnut shell and marketing and Michelle and.[00:05:54] So they're all quite different times, so, [00:05:57] Germaine: [00:05:57] yeah. Yeah. Well, so you mentioned that, uh, your hometowns Bungendore so still Canberra region, but is the business based out of Bungendore then? [00:06:06] Lianne: [00:06:06] Um, so yeah, our business is still at, uh, at our home and that is in Bungendore. We do have, um, a lot to do in Queanbeyan as well.[00:06:15] We have the storage there. And yeah, most of it is starting in Queanbeyan and Canberra. [00:06:22] Germaine: [00:06:22] How's that been? So you still produce it out of Bungendore you then take it in and you, you don't have your own store. You just have a retailers who sell the product, correct? That's [00:06:33] Lianne: [00:06:33] right. Yeah. We have an online store only.[00:06:35] And the rest it's or, um, other stores and it used to be markets as well. Not so much these days. [00:06:40] Germaine: [00:06:40] Yeah. Give us an idea of, um, so when you mentioned you, you guys started in 2017, um, how old were the both of you just to give us an idea of, you know, the stage of life you are in, if you don't mind me asking.[00:06:56] Lianne: [00:06:56] I was 32, Mick was 35. And we, so we had, um, uh, my oldest daughter, she was born in 2015. So we had a baby that was over one year. And that's, I guess after that one year we kinda felt like we were. Starting to get back to normal again, getting out of that, that baby, um, came alive. Like we had a little bit more space, um, to start doing this.[00:07:25] Germaine: [00:07:25] Yeah. I mentioned was a, is a chemist. So he, he brings. That skill. What did you feel like you brought in sort of initially or what, what, what did you handle? How did you, I guess what I'm trying to understand is how you can balance this out, sort of working with a partner. Um, you know, you mentioned you put it really nicely.[00:07:44] He he's your business and life partner, but. I'm sure that that adds a level of challenge because you've got to put up with each other and you know, you don't want to bring, you don't want to bring fights at home into work, but you don't have the options, especially when you're, when you're working and operating the business out of your, out of your home or close to home.[00:08:05] What did you bring into this? And, um, how do you handle that dynamic? [00:08:09] Lianne: [00:08:09] So my background is a business. I've got a business degree, so that fit very well together. It was still a big learning curve. I'm originally from the Netherlands. So I think that'd be different, I suppose. But yeah, I did have the skills and, um, yeah, working together.[00:08:26] I mean, it's, I guess it has evolved over the years and we, we had to find out the best way to do this and your ride up in this is our home. So I guess really not any, any, um, separation there, um, which, which works for us. Like we can, like, we can separate it ourselves. Um, we don't talk about business all the time, but we do it at, you know, sounds that maybe other people wouldn't like at night or, you know, at other times of the day, but yeah, it's, it just really works.[00:08:56] Germaine: [00:08:56] Yeah. I mean, there's no one size fits all rule. Right. Um, I guess that's the beauty with business. You can, especially when you other, the founder or the founders, you can just make it what you want. You can decide if you want to go really big and go to multiple retailers of big retailers, you can decide if you want to talk about it at breakfast or only talk about it for four hours of the day that you want to work, or, you know, um, that that's, I guess the, the beauty and the freedom sort of that that comes with business, do you think.[00:09:26] That was one of the reasons you wanted to get into business. Was it sort of that taking or being able to take control and, uh, direct the life, uh, direct your life in the way that you wanted to? [00:09:38] Lianne: [00:09:38] Yes. Yeah, it was, it was weird. Yeah. It's just the thought of doing something that was totally new for us and exploring that together.[00:09:47] And then from it, I think was what really drove us to start. [00:09:51] Germaine: [00:09:51] What were some of the milestones, thinking back to your first sort of, how long do you think it took you to, um, really get traction and, and what, what did that sort of take? Um, not, not just in time, but in terms of effort, what did you have to do?[00:10:09] Do you think to hit, uh, Point at which you felt like, okay, you know, we're starting to get traction and people are starting to hear about us and we're starting to, you know, starting to smoke. [00:10:19] Lianne: [00:10:19] Yeah. So, um, you know, first year we, like I said, we did a lot of, of, of markets, which we don't really do anymore. Um, it was a good way to get us out there and.[00:10:28] To meet people and to learn about our customers. And we, we still doing, um, camera handmade mock-up, which is a launch, um, marketing camera. Um, and. People are always coming back to that because they know where they are and they, they, every time the markets don't make them, they come in to buy. So, so, so that's one way.[00:10:53] Um, we really got ourselves out there when things really started changing for us was when we also started to focus on wide label manufacturing. So making soap for other brands, and this is something we're actually focusing on a lot more these days. And, um, yeah, so, and that that's, that has really changed things around for us because those orders are quite a lot larger than kind of what, what our Base Soaps.[00:11:22] Does, but, um, it's still kind of half, half what we're doing, [00:11:26] Germaine: [00:11:26] is it, is it just the two of you still in the business or have you got other people involved? [00:11:31] Lianne: [00:11:31] Yep. No, we have an employee now who does, um, make most of the soap making, um, activities during the day. And so to freeze from makeup to do other Tufts.[00:11:41] So yeah. So Mick has always been the main soak maker. I've never made any soap in my life, so that's always been a very clear divide there, but yeah, so, so it's the. The recurring tasks of making all the stuff that had been taken out of his hands, which has been great because, um, really needed that to happen.[00:11:59] And were also in the process of working with people to start doing the wrapping up the sides and stamping after they've been made, um, which is something we were still doing ourselves. And it's something that we often do at night because it's, you can easily do it. If you do it during the day, quickly takes away from all the other things that need to happen, but it's kind of building up and, um, we needed to get other people in to do that.[00:12:28] So I'm looking into doing that now as well. [00:12:30] Germaine: [00:12:30] So it's exciting when you, I think it's almost like this brink way. Start to realize, hold on. I, we can't grow. We don't have we've run out of. Time, we need to get other people involved, but then this it's this balance between, but it's my baby. Like I don't want other people involved.[00:12:46] It's it's me. But you know, I definitely found that hiring that first person is almost like a. Like a release because then you realize, hold on, you can actually train someone else and they can do just as good a job, if not a better job than you. And that's just crucial. Have you found, have you found that to be true?[00:13:05] Lianne: [00:13:05] Yeah, definitely. Especially for, yeah, for the soap making. And I, I often think that with the re-upping and the stamping, we should've been doing that already, but I guess it's the logistics around it. That actual more complicated thing than you would think, because we do it very rich stiffly. We wrap the subs and pack them where as, um, although most we would have the planet out of it, which is what we're going to do now.[00:13:32] But it's, I think, um, a bit more complex than we thought, but that's fine. And it's definitely one of the tasks that we should be outsourcing because it frees us up to do, to do other things. [00:13:42] Germaine: [00:13:42] Exactly and it doesn't. Yeah. One could argue that the wrapping and stamping doesn't necessarily change the dynamic of product.[00:13:50] Fundamentally, it's almost like a cosmetic layer that you've got to add on that, that, you know, whether you do it or someone else does it. It's essentially the same thing. There's no, there's no X factor that goes into it. Um, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't, you might, you might rap rap soaps better than anyone else, but I'm not sure.[00:14:13] Lianne: [00:14:13] No, that's true. That's I mean, I can spend my time doing things that are more important for the business and. [00:14:19] Germaine: [00:14:19] Well, especially with your business background, you can definitely do things that are more business driven, right. Making the right decisions, um, making marketing decisions or reaching out to the right partners.[00:14:28] That's talking about partners. How did you find the first few retailers or was it really sort of a. Word of mouth through the markets, et cetera, and then reaching out to people and saying, listen, did you have to prove to them that you have a good product? How did that work? [00:14:44] Lianne: [00:14:44] So it's kind of been a mix. We, um, has spent some, we spend some time, um, going around to stores that we thought might be interested.[00:14:52] There is the type of store that sells a product. Um, I mean, there's a few different ones, but one that really started the. The store that is very kind of environment, Maine and local product focused. So we, um, targeted though us and just, yeah, we just went around to talk to them and give them samples and, um, went from there.[00:15:13] Um, and. We've been able to really keep a customer through the years. So distorted started selling a product, but always come back and have been happy with the product. So that's been great. Um, we also have like social media sources or that, that people find us through and in the markets as well. [00:15:33] Germaine: [00:15:33] He then mentioned that you also produce soaps for other.[00:15:37] Brands for the lack of a better word or other people. How did that happen? How did those things sort of fall into place? [00:15:44] Lianne: [00:15:44] Yeah, that was also very, um, very lucky, I guess, cause there's one store that's quite a larger store and we, um, basically make just the walk in there and talk to them and went from there and they were very good.[00:15:58] In interested in the white label, whenever I, um, kind of, particularly in the products they want to sell. And because we're so small, we can be very flexible with that. And also because canvas background, he enjoys kind of exploring new, new, new ways of doing things, a new product. So we've been working really well with them.[00:16:17] And, um, we have a lot of products that. Yeah. We make comments with them that are very new, that we don't even, we could start selling for ourselves as well. For example, we have started making a dish block for them, so very new thing. Um, so yeah, we just been exploring that and yeah, it's been great. [00:16:36] Germaine: [00:16:36] Yeah. I mean, partnerships like that have the potential, like, like you, you were mentioning to allow you to experiment and going to, and try things that you may not have, but because this partner has this need or is willing to almost back things a little bit, you're not sort of going out on limb otherwise and sort of deciding for yourself, we're going to experiment with this.[00:16:56] You can work in a bit of a partnership. It's always. I think interesting when you talk to a business, because some of them just don't don't really want to share information with anyone or don't want to share anything with anyone else where there's, there's a lot of others who want to collaborate. And have you found that, that collaboration, um, to sort of change how you think about even your business as a, as a result of talking to your other partners and people who, who you white label for?[00:17:24] Lianne: [00:17:24] Um, yes, definitely. Yeah, because of products. Like I just mentioned that the show and, um, we also, I think when we started making shampoo bars and conditioner Bassey was for them first as well. And, um, because they know better what their customers want because they're in contact with them every day. Um, and then they can put that through to us.[00:17:46] And then we can find out what we can do, which is actually works really well. [00:17:50] Germaine: [00:17:50] Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice sort of symbiotic relationship where they rely on you for the product and you rely on them for their customer insights and, um, what, what customers are looking for in product ideas. Yeah. Now, are you guys the two of you now full-time in the business or did the, when did that any sort of transitions happen with, with where you're spending your time and what you're working on?[00:18:14] Lianne: [00:18:14] We are both now, I'm only focusing on the tennis, um, three days a week and I make the basically time for make it wind down very gradually. Um, he was working part-time and that kind of. But less than, than the business got more. And then that somehow changed that for me, it doing a bit more abrupt. And in March of this year, um, when I was still working for a boss, but, um, because of COVID that ended, and it was actually.[00:18:42] Really good timing, because I guess I had, we started thinking about both of us focusing on the business, but to make that jump from, you know, having an extra income to just focusing on the business fully, it's quite scary. And I hadn't really dead to make that yet, but this kind of pushed us to do it. And yeah, it's actually been been Greg for us because it worked out really well, which is not.[00:19:10] Yes. The story you must be here about this. [00:19:13] Germaine: [00:19:13] Yeah. Given COVID, but you touched on something that, um, I found out myself as well, sometimes, you know, it takes external pressures to push you in the right direction, whether that's losing a job or, you know, feeling. Just like you don't belong in the role that you're, you're serving.[00:19:32] Um, how did you, I found when I, when I made that leap from sort of side hustle or part-time to full-time, I also found that for whatever reason more opportunities just made themselves, made themselves available, if that sort of makes sense. Like, I felt like the first month after I quit my job and went.[00:19:54] Full time into the business. I felt like all these people who I already knew suddenly he reached out to me and said, actually, germane, I need help with marketing. I need help with the website. And all I could think was these guys could have done the same thing, you know, a month before when I was working full time.[00:20:08] But they didn't, it all, it almost felt like making that jump, just unlock these opportunities. Did you have a similar experience? [00:20:14] Lianne: [00:20:14] I did. Yes, mostly also, because we are at the point where it was going really well. And. We knew that we could do a lot to, to grow and to change, but we just had to put the work in and with me having another job, make running around, keeping up with the day-to-day business that just wasn't happening.[00:20:36] And then when I did start working. Would it be business. We did have that space and we could think about, you know, what we want in the future to have them, like, you could just make better plants and, and, and, um, know better what was going on and all of that kind of thing. So that really did make a big difference.[00:20:56] I also, I mentioned before that we're a social enterprise and I so. I might just go back to tell you the story about that real quick. So we, when we started the business, we, um, kind of knew we wanted to give it an extra dimension and to, and I was very excited about the profit or purpose model, um, where, um, uh, begging the business, redirects that profits to social costs.[00:21:23] And we had decided to do this, and we basically were a social entrepreneur. We didn't know that we were until we heard about house ventures. Um, which you know about, because you had Cindy Mitchell in your podcast last year. And so we learned about them from someone and that's when we decided that what we were doing was being social enterprise.[00:21:44] And so we did, we did a program with them, with them. Uh, I might. Yeah. So the Miller center is an organization supporting business growth and impact in social enterprise. So basically we had mentors with them throughout the years. And I just wanted to tell you about that, going back to this, because when I started working fully for Base Soaps, we kind of increased our contact with them again and mentoring through them and found all the mental stir them, which also, um, really, um, accelerated.[00:22:18] Germaine: [00:22:18] Yeah. So what's your, what, what is the social purpose or what's that extra dimension to the business? What, what, what do you guys try and do? [00:22:25] Lianne: [00:22:25] So we, our aim is for our profits to be redirected to health and hygiene programs for Australian communities. Which means that in our case, we are looking at an organization called Malta and they have a young doctors program, um, where they, um, teach young people to become healthy to that PAs, that communities.[00:22:47] So curiculum based program that they do. So, yeah, we we've been looking at them through the years and promoting that course as well. And, you know, and to be redirected to them and prom and other organizations in the future as well when we grow. [00:23:03] Germaine: [00:23:03] Yeah. Yeah. Like social enterprises are definitely on the up aren't they?[00:23:09] And, um, especially, um, I feel like, you know, social enterprises, enterprises that are trying to do things more correctly, um, trying to do things, um, that are. Good for the environment, rather than trying to, you know, just take things out of the earth as much as they can are definitely on the uptick. And, um, you guys definitely definitely fit that bill.[00:24:16] Do you feel like is your unique selling point versus all the other soaps out there? Um, you know, I think you'd agree when you go to a supermarket, there are a lot of soap options. It's, it's almost like. Paralyzing. I, I do this thing where I go to the shops and buy 10 bars of soap. And then that lasts me for a long time, because I didn't have to make that decision again for a long time.[00:24:39] But there's everything from, you know, antibiotics, soaps to moisturizing, soaps, to soaps that smell good to serves that have goat's milk. How do you, how do you position yourself in this market and how do you see yourself in this market? [00:24:53] Lianne: [00:24:53] Um, we know that a lot of our customers, um, like a product because, um, and this person, because for my spasms, but because there's no plastic involved and because soap is, it is a daily, a product that people use everyday for their personal routine.[00:25:11] It's actually makes a big difference if you change that habit and just use Faso. Um, also we're very proud of, um, the fact that we. Aim to get our ingredients and local as possible. And if local it's not possible as ethical as possible, but though, so that they come from places and that's something that our customers really value.[00:25:34] Um, and the fact that we are a social enterprise is something that, um, adds to that because we feel that empowering the customer to do something good with them on a as well as giving them the daily necessities is. It's something that a lot of people are starting to, to think about these days. Um, and yeah, as you can see with, like you said, social enterprise are getting a lot bigger.[00:25:59] There are massive players on those fields now, such as the thank you brand and. And the, um, keeps you grab toilet paper and things like that. So I think that really tells us that that's the focus is shifting in that respect. [00:26:12] Germaine: [00:26:12] Yeah, definitely. And you make a good point about it's, you know, it's something that everyone uses every day, um, or should be using every day, especially with COVID you should be using soap all the time.[00:26:25] Um, it it's one of those things that, you know, you make a small difference. In every single day and over a year, that's, that's a lot of soap used that, um, we could have gone, you know, to using unethically sourced or poorly sourced ingredients, more plastics, more waste. Um, I think, I hadn't even thought about the fact that, you know, it, it is a small thing.[00:26:49] But it's, it's a thing that plus, you know, it's a commodity item that everyone needs, right. Everyone, everyone needs to use. So you do have that potential to almost make small change that just compounds to such a huge change and moving forward, which is, um, very exciting. We've talked about all the. Cool things that you guys are doing, I'm sure there've been missteps along the way.[00:27:13] Do you do any misstep sort of come to mind that the Makey guy, uh, you know, cringe a little bit or go, why did we make that decision? [00:27:21] Lianne: [00:27:21] I guess everybody that relative business ha ha has some kind of learning curve and we definitely did. Um, yeah, let's, like I said, at the start, it was very much an after hours thing and I was doing.[00:27:33] Mostly like the administration side of things. And because I was doing it up there after my day dropping off to take out my children, that was a very limited time for that. So I, I wasn't as aware as I should've been about everything that was coming in and going out and like being a manufacturing business as a lot of things like, um, raw materials and.[00:27:55] And they would post and things like that. And we probably weren't as aware as they should have been about what it actually costs to meet that bar. So, and also what we were actually selling as well. So since I started fully focusing on the business from the start of the year, I have. Um, a little more space for that and be able to, to track that.[00:28:14] But I also realized the importance of that now a little better. I think it's a, well-known saying that it'll say small businesses survive. If their owners know exactly what's going on. Yeah, I think that's very important to remember [00:28:29] Germaine: [00:28:29] yeah. Keeping an eye on. Yeah, that, I mean, even, even from more, I guess, simpler point of view, I've heard of many, many small businesses falling apart simply because they didn't even give an eye on the money coming in and out, you know, and they've had like a bad accountant or a bad bookkeeper skimming money off the top, let alone getting into things like raw materials.[00:28:48] Production process. I'm trying to understand where your suppliers source their things from, because sometimes it's not possible even just go and look at the facilities. Some, some of these suppliers I'm sure in any business, including yours would, would shy away from it. If, if they, if you sort of turned around and said, can I, can I see your factory?[00:29:07] They might say actually, yeah. Uh, not, not really. So it makes it difficult for you because. You've got to do a bit of a detective work to try and find the true source of news. Yeah, [00:29:17] Lianne: [00:29:17] that's right. Yeah. That's right. It's production process as well. Um, which I realize. Lovely to see you too, with thinking about, you know, like more sales.[00:29:26] And then we were thinking, hang on, what's actually accessed in our current space, like we were making as we were selling, but we didn't know what we could do. So I suppose, but small and we are, we are looking, um, hopefully sometime next year to move out to a bigger facility. But before we were doing that, I was like, well, let's find out what we can actually do here and what the maximum capacity is.[00:29:49] So when we started looking at that, I realized that there was a lot of things that I actually didn't realize. So, yeah, it's good. So we get those things, [00:29:57] Germaine: [00:29:57] look at, look at, I guess what you're talking about is looking at, um, almost every stage of the production process and what it takes to understand what you can optimize, what you can change, how cause yeah.[00:30:07] Space is a resource just like time is so it's good to be able to use that to its maximum potential. Um, And, and sort of, and, you know, having the time to do that, because when you were working at part time, I'm sure it was a case of, we've just got to get these orders packed in out there, you know, looking into everything else is just, um, it's just time that, that you couldn't spare.[00:30:30] Um, what's the. What's the production process like, and how long does it take to make a bar of soap? I don't even know where to start. So it's more of a inquisitive question from me, but tell me a little bit about that. [00:30:43] Lianne: [00:30:43] Um, so the bar soaps, the, um, manner of, of mixing the ingredients. There's no there's no heating or anything involved.[00:30:50] So, um, it's a very quick process to make the unmade just, um, mixed into a liquid liquid gets bought into the mold and after a day, It's firm enough, they get out of them all and then we cut it off and then it has to cure for at least a four a month, four to be the box of thinking actually sell because before that month it's still very, um, yeah, very soft and yeah, it was too dry for a while.[00:31:16] Germaine: [00:31:16] Yeah, right. So that would have, especially when you're starting off added a level of complexity when you've have to almost be ready a month before demand, don't you? [00:31:27] Lianne: [00:31:27] Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Just so we can, you know, deliver new bikes next week. It takes a bit longer than that. Yeah. [00:31:35] Germaine: [00:31:35] How did you counsel that?[00:31:36] Lianne: [00:31:36] Um, I guess trial and error, we, we always can because we have a standard drain and range and that, that enables us to make beforehand. And then we have always have enough that we can sell to our wholesalers with white label. It's a little bit different because that's just part of the process and our white label customers understand that that's the way it is.[00:31:58] So, yeah, that's just taken into account when they're ordering. [00:32:02] Germaine: [00:32:02] I mean, with white label, I guess, um, it's almost on them to decide how much they owe, how much they need to order in advance. Um, because you know, they will turn around to you and say, we need this many, you know, bars of soap at this point, rather than you making that decision where, um, it's really more on your end where you've got to sort of, um, balance it out.[00:32:22] But I guess, you know, after the first few years you would have enough data for you to. To be able to look at it and sort of say, okay, we know that this time of the year we sell quite well this time of the year, it's a little bit quieter and you can sort of balance things out that way as well. [00:32:37] Lianne: [00:32:37] Yeah. We know that a bit better now and now it's leading up to Christmas.[00:32:41] We know that's going to be a few easy months, so we are busy manufacturing all the boss, but that the liquids are a bit easier because we can do that. This doesn't need to cure anything. We can make big containers of liquid and then change them into the different sense that I needed. So that's a bit easier, but yeah, it definitely can find it a little better now.[00:33:02] Germaine: [00:33:02] Yeah. Yeah. It's um, I've never, I've always wanted to be in a, or B a business that produces things, but, but I've never been, never, always been sort of service-based I guess, but it's, it's an interesting challenge that you guys have, you can sell almost, you know, while you're asleep and sort of make money while you're asleep, but you've got to really put in that work.[00:33:23] In advance. I mean, for you guys, it's, it's at least a month in advance. Um, because if it's, if it's, um, any less, you you'll have soaps that, I guess I'm more like a BlueTech or like gooey than the actual hub. So before, before we, um, talked about what you hope to do in moving forward, tell me a little bit about your sort of process in terms of how you guys handle orders.[00:33:48] They come to you directly through your website. [00:33:50] Lianne: [00:33:50] Um, yeah, so I, website orders is something that we do ourselves and it's the same way. We, we have the storage space in premium bar soap store. And usually we go with that about three times a week. So when we have orders in that we know needs to be sent off, we'll take those box home, wrap them, pack them in and send them off.[00:34:14] So it's very, um, yeah, it's very reactionary. And, um, I knew I saw at the moment, if it would increase, it would be a bigger workload, but it's, um, it's still a smaller part of, of, um, uh, sales. So you can, most of it, the still wholesalers. Um, but it's, it's good. It's a good way for us to directly engage with our customers.[00:34:37] Germaine: [00:34:37] Definitely. And it's a good way for you guys to keep your finger on the policy as well at the very least to sort of know what customers like, what customers don't like and what sort of what's happening in the soaps market, because otherwise you just be directed by a wholesalers which takes a little bit of that control out of your hands to an extent, doesn't it.[00:34:56] Lianne: [00:34:56] I mentioned before the one market. Still doing his Hamra handmade market and they've this year gone virtual, we've got a virtual mock-up usually once a month, which is great as well because we, we just get web orders through them, um, straight to us. And it's been really good at actually it's a, it's a busy weekend, even though we don't have to.[00:35:16] Go anywhere and do anything special. [00:35:20] Germaine: [00:35:20] Yeah. But it's all home-based and you guys still continue to, um, be able to produce things and deliver things to customers. There's just exciting. Um, what do you, what do you guys hope to do moving forward? Do you have any you've you've mentioned look at a bigger facility.[00:35:35] Um, you know, are you planning to add new products? What what's what's things looking like over the next six, 12 months, or even longer? [00:35:42] Lianne: [00:35:42] Yeah. So, yeah, like you said, there, in the next 12 months, we have to move out to a bigger facility. I also aim to, to put more of an emphasis on the social, um, social purpose that we have.[00:35:54] It's, it's always been there, but it's sometimes been a big, common background. So I try to push that out to the world more and kind of talk about that a lot more. And, um, yeah, hopefully we get that. Uh, difficult, not difficult, but challenging period in our business where we want to move out to a facility and get more.[00:36:15] Um, older customers and kind of getting that balance right, is I think going to be an interesting challenge for the next year. Um, and also the wide label pod of obviousness is something we are going to expand as well. [00:36:33] Germaine: [00:36:33] Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit of a chicken or the egg. Yes. And that when you're looking to expand, because you want to expand your resources, whether it's space or staffing to a point, which is big enough that it, that it matters, but then you need to work.[00:36:49] Got you. No, do you get the orders first then get, get a location, but. You know, both of those processes can take six months and still get, get nowhere. So it's very chicken or the egg. [00:37:00] Lianne: [00:37:00] Yeah. It's very difficult. And so we started thinking about it and ran into it. We was thinking like, how do other people do that?[00:37:07] But I think it's just a balancing act. And, um, um, we just have to sit there and make sure we do it the right way, but, um, yeah, we'll get there. [00:37:17] Germaine: [00:37:17] Yeah, no, you definitely will. I think, um, that's something that we, we continue to sort of battle with him and even, um, at future the area, trying to work out, you know, we want to go to an office that's twice as big, but do we hire the people and then squish them into our current office?[00:37:32] Um, and then, you know, say, okay guys, like give us the next 12 months, we'll find a location so that you guys don't have to sit on each other's laps. [00:37:42] Lianne: [00:37:42] Yeah. It's tricky. [00:37:43] Germaine: [00:37:43] It is very tricky. It's a balancing act, but business is tricky businesses and supposed to be easy. It'd business takes a lot of work and thinking and talking.[00:37:52] So, um, where can people find out more about, uh, Base Soaps and what you guys do? [00:37:58] Lianne: [00:37:58] Yeah. On our website, www.basesoaps.com.au. So it's up to you and our social media as well. [00:38:05] Germaine: [00:38:05] That's fantastic. Um, are you ready for the top 12? Okay. Let's get into it top three books or podcasts that you recommend. [00:38:14] Lianne: [00:38:14] Yeah. So I wrote down one book that I will say straight away that I haven't finished it yet, but I've already found it very interesting.[00:38:22] It's called the infinite game. By Simon Sinek. And it's, it's kind of about how, how business is an infinite game. It just always keeps going, but a lot of people think about it as a finite game, so it's a very different mindset. So I find it very interesting to read about and the other two, I read download podcasts.[00:38:41] So I really like. Kind of inspirational stories from people and one that really enjoys the lady start-up stories. Um, that's a podcast from mama Mia and the other one I really like is the big magic podcast by Elizabeth Gilbert. Um, I think a lot of people know by Elizabeth Gilbert. And her book, big magic, but I was particularly excited about the podcast that came with the book because it talks about New York people specifically in day, their creative journey.[00:39:10] I really enjoyed that. [00:39:12] Germaine: [00:39:12] Awesome. Um, there's some recommendations that we haven't had before, which is nice. Um, top three software tools that you can't live without. [00:39:21] Lianne: [00:39:21] Yeah. So, um, the first one is trailer. I don't know if that needs any motion, the nation. I feel like a lot of people are using it these days, but yeah, it's basically my brain dump from my screen, which I love.[00:39:33] And, um, you feel very free because of it. I guess the other one is, um, it's a manufacturing resource software, which is basically the reason that I now know what's going on in my business. I think there's a lot of different ones out there. And for us, it was just the, um, The challenge to find the right one, like the small ones for really small businesses that I bought at T businesses.[00:39:57] And then there's massive ones. So I felt it was kind of a task to find the right one. Cause we kind of in the middle of that. And so do you want to follow us, go to MRP easy and yeah, we just put everything in that, all the recipes, all the raw materials, all our sales and made all the difference. [00:40:14] Germaine: [00:40:14] Wow. Wow.[00:40:16] Is there a third one? [00:40:17] Lianne: [00:40:17] Yes, there is third one. Um, I had to love when I read it down, it's an a zero extension go. Hubdocs. Which they added, um, at the start of the year, which for some reason I find it very hard to keep track of all my receipts. I don't know why it should not be that difficult, but somehow I wasn't, it was just very hard and, and hope dog says, um, you can just scan and, you know, it matches up.[00:40:44] And then it just takes that, that task away, which is great. I actually have a fourth one as well. That's all right. Yeah, of [00:40:53] Germaine: [00:40:53] course. [00:40:55] Lianne: [00:40:55] Well, my personal, um, finance called pocket book, which I love keeps track of all your [00:41:03] Germaine: [00:41:03] expenses. Yeah. It's um, I guess this is this software question really goes to show that it's, it's very important to keep track of things and keep an account for everything, whether it's your, your raw materials, whether it's your business processes or your receipts, um, or even your personal finance.[00:41:21] Love it. Um, top three mantras are try and live by. [00:41:25] Lianne: [00:41:25] Yeah. So I, um, but they're not really meant for us, but I rather than three sentences really resonate with me. And that I have to remember all the time, because I tend to forget about these things, which the first one is the thing about the long-term game.[00:41:39] You know, when you're doing small little recurring tasks that are just boring, you think you need to remember why you're doing it. The second one is to review and evaluate what you've done, especially in our business journey. It's sometimes easy to forget how far we've gone in this last few years. And then the last one is to trust yourself and to know that when something feels right, it's usually right.[00:42:02] So. [00:42:05] Germaine: [00:42:05] Fantastic. And the last one, top three people you follow or study. [00:42:10] Lianne: [00:42:10] Yes. So again, I kind of answered that question a bit differently because I couldn't really think about three specific people, but I just thought I wanted to point out some. Uh, businesses. So I guess the people behind the businesses would be the ones that I really admire.[00:42:26] So I really inspired by businesses that are changing the landscape and doing things differently at the moment on my radar. I kind of, it's a bit of a different direction, but. The businesses that make alcohol free drinks and make alcohol free drinking a lot more mainstream. And this is something that I think has made a huge leap in the last maybe two years.[00:42:50] So the three that are married are at the moment as a vehicle sober. S O B H that's a lot. There's an, a camera on cook, huge normal, which I love that business name by the way. And then there's all Tina, where they sell alcohol free drinks. And they were actually at the mail house mentoring program at the same year as we were.[00:43:12] So I think that's, that's a great, yeah, there are, I guess, social enterprises in no way, um, by contributing positively to the community. And then the second one and I. I think the big social enterprises that I've already mentioned before, that kind of paved the way for all of us. Like thank you. And he gives you grab, and then there's also a hat business go whale and bath.[00:43:35] And they're also search enterprise and yeah. All of those businesses. Yep. [00:43:40] Germaine: [00:43:40] Fantastic. The, the, the point of this question is to try and identify, you know, accounts that can be followed for example. So that very much answers that because I'm sure all of these organizations and businesses have, um, Presences out there that you can follow and learn from and see what they're doing.[00:43:57] And, um, so yeah, you know, it didn't matter whether it's people or businesses, there's ultimately people buying these businesses anyways. So, yeah. That's fantastic. Thanks for this. Thanks for coming on this episode. Um, it's been awesome to talk to you.
Thursday Nov 12, 2020
Thursday Nov 12, 2020
On this episode of the podcast, we had the pleasure of chatting with Tahlia Cooper, a local fashionista and entrepreneur who founded the wildly successful Jaeke collection in 2017.
Despite her initial reservations about starting a fashion label with no previous industry experience, it took Tahlia less than a year after starting her company to get her pieces into the hands of some of Australia’s biggest socialites and on the red carpet of the 2018 ARIA awards. Throughout the episode, Tahlia talks about how she overcame the steep learning curve associated with starting an online retail business and some of the critical mistakes she made along the way. She also highlights how the digital marketing skills she developed when starting the Jaeke Collection helped her find lucrative job opportunities later in life. The show then concludes with Tahlia discussing the importance of entrepreneurial groups centred around empowering women, as well as the future of her boutique.
What we talk about
Differentiation in the crowded fashion industry
The learning curve associated with starting an online business from scratch
Leveraging the skills you develop when starting a business into future job opportunities
Female-led entrepreneurial groups
Links from this episode
https://jaeke-collection.com/ (TJC Website)
https://www.instagram.com/jaeke.collection/ (TJC on Instagram)
https://www.facebook.com/jaeke.collection/ (TJC on Facebook)
Find us elsewhere
https://futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe Website)
https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)
https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)
https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors
Germaine: [00:00:00] Hello, future tribe. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. On this episode, I've got Tahlia Cooper from Jaeke collective. Did I get that right? Or collections? All right. [00:00:59] Tahlia: [00:00:59] You did you did it is Jaeke. Jaeke? . Kind of like, cause you[00:01:09] look like my middle name's Jae. So it's spelled J a e it's yeah, it's a little bit different to, you know, classic J a Y. but when I started the business, because it's a Parisian themed boutique, I kind of wanted something that sounded a little bit, you know, unique, and also a little bit more premium.[00:01:27] And I guess Jaeke kind of just like came into the mix. So that's yeah. [00:01:35] Germaine: [00:01:35] Yeah. I mean, you've got to, I guess it goes to show, you got to think a little bit more about your name than just sort of coming up with something it's got to like, like you've touched on, it's got to have that sort of Persian sort of European flavor to [00:01:50] Tahlia: [00:01:50] it.[00:01:52] Germaine: [00:01:52] Hey, I mean, that's all part of sort of the vibe that you're going for and not bougie, but the sort of premium, aesthetic. We, we sort of jumped right into it on, on this episode so far, but give me an idea of, what you guys do first for those who don't [00:02:08] Tahlia: [00:02:08] know. Yeah. Yeah. So basically we are an Australian online boutique.[00:02:12]we specialize in both men's and women's fashion and. Essentially the collection is sort of tailored around what I touched on earlier. Australian and Parisien is Parisian fashion trends. and I'd like to think that we're quite affordable and we're quite unique in market at the moment as well. [00:02:31] Germaine: [00:02:31] Okay.[00:02:31] And, when did you start the business? [00:02:33] So I started this a little over two and a half years ago. Now I was working in hospitality at the time. I had a budding career in hotel management and I was thinking to myself, you know, do I really want to be in hospitality for the rest of my life? No offense. I love everyone in hospital, but I just felt really uninspired.[00:02:53] And I thought, you know, I've done. I had a degree in entrepreneurial management. I managed people for a living as well, so I figured, you know, why not fuse those two together and come up with something creative that I can call my own. And it was kind of like, I try to think back about like when, when it started or why I did it.[00:03:11] And it was one of those things that just sort of. Jumped out of nowhere, I guess I kind of went home and started doing all this research. And, you know, if I look back on what my first website looked like, Oh my God, that thing was horrendous. And pretty sure it has like type of background, but, you know, we all start somewhere and yeah, I couldn't think of that, that I was just really uninspired and it just, just started the business out of nowhere.[00:03:35] Yeah, [00:03:36] right. I mean, it's, I guess it just goes to show sort of, I believe that businesses started out of an out of a need and a passion and not, not sort of, I know a lot of people who spend time trying to work out, you know, I want to start a business, what's the business going to be in. And then they do all this research.[00:03:51] And what you end up with, I believe is sort of, you get into business because you want to. You want to get into business? Not necessarily because your, you have a passion or you have some need that you see you're solving. I mean, you've mentioned you guys are sort of unique in the market. so I would assume that you felt like there was a need for, for that sort of solution or that sort of product.[00:04:12] And then just sort of [00:04:13] Tahlia: [00:04:13] same time. I have a really unhealthy obsession with clothes. So I mean like most. Girls my age as well. and I think when I started it, one of the big things that I thought about was, you know, spending all this money, giving to other online retailers and I had this light bulb moment was like, you know, if I have my own business, I'll have my own clothes that I can access little.[00:04:38] Did I know there's so much more work that goes into running a business and then just having a couple of blows on the side. yeah, that's kind of what fueled a little bit of, the business journey and start and just not wanting to do the nine to five grind as well with big, big factor there too.[00:04:55] Germaine: [00:04:55] Yeah, especially in hospitality, I assume that can be very tiring, very on your fate and managing people in hospitality. It's a, it's sort of a wild ride. I, I, I was thinking about it, like in the restaurant or hospitality space, you don't really. Ever know what's going to happen. When you, when you open, you don't know how many customers are gonna have it, or know how many orders are you going to have?[00:05:14] You sort of, it's like every day you just take upon and just go, okay, we're going to open up and then just go where it takes us. There's no, there's no real predictability. At least in a lot of other businesses, you can book in appointments. You can book in meetings. You can book in work. Hospitality is nothing like that.[00:05:30] So I'm sure there's an element of when you. Got into your own thing of having a bit more control and arguably a little bit easier. Even you talked about, you know, girls. [00:05:41]Tahlia: [00:05:41] so 25, almost 26 now, but when I thought a Jaeke, I would have been like 2017, maybe 22, 23, I think. Yeah. Okay. [00:05:52] Germaine: [00:05:52] So you were in hospitality at the time.[00:05:54] So you would have had a degree under your belt, sort of finished that up and then gone into full-time work at that [00:06:01] Tahlia: [00:06:01] stage. So, because I'm in the hospitality industry or in hotel management, I was working nights. So that meant that I could go to uni during the day. So I would always work full time and I would always go to uni during the day.[00:06:13]but once that finished, I didn't really. Have anything else to do? I was just working and I was like, well, got to, I've got to do something with my degree. And I have got all these skills. and I had a, you know, full French, schooling as well since kindergarten. So I was fluent in French, for 10 years and thought maybe I should do something with my French language and my business acumen and make something of it.[00:06:39] Germaine: [00:06:39] Yeah. And so you're based in Canberra or [00:06:42] Tahlia: [00:06:42] I was when I initially first started the online store, but that's the beauty of being online. Right. I can take it anywhere. I still have a lot of stocks still down there, but I'm now currently in Sydney and this is purely have a lot more suppliers up here. It's easier to have those day to day interactions with them.[00:07:00] Germaine: [00:07:00] Yeah. Yeah. So let's go. I, I'm definitely gonna get into, sort of suppliers and how you made that happen, but let's go rewind a little bit. So you, you were in hospitality, you decide that you want to try this business. What, what was the next step for you? Did you. Quit. And then just start the business from, from day one or what was your approach there?[00:07:24]Tahlia: [00:07:24] well, I couldn't quit straight away. I mean, if there's one takeaway, you can't just quit your day job, you know, you still, unfortunately still, you still need that capital. We still need to be working. but I did go home and after every shift and I would sit there and I would just research because, you know, it's so hard to find suppliers nowadays.[00:07:43] And no one, it's not just a simple, quick Google search either. I really had to do some digging through my socials. And then there's of course, you know, things I'd never done before, like setting up a website or, you know, getting into digital ads and it was all a really self learning. Journey. so I did that for a while, but the next big step that I took, which is what led me to live in Sydney was I just applied for a social media manager role in Sydney, mind you, like my only experience at this point was creating my own Myron things.[00:08:16] So I was really going out on a whim and trying to sell myself. Into something bigger than what I was and Hey, it turned out for the best. And I landed a job in Sydney and I learnt a lot on the job there and just building up my own store at the same time. [00:08:30] Germaine: [00:08:30] Yeah. Well, I mean the saying sort of goes that if you want to do, do something.[00:08:36]sort of mind blowing. You've got to put in the work to get there. Right? You've got to put in, you've got to do what, what other people don't want to do or don't think you should do. And part of that is definitely going out on a bit of a lamp sort of taking a bit of a chance and pushing yourself because if you're not going to push yourself like.[00:08:54] Who who's going to do that for you, obviously, you know, no one's going to come knocking on your shoulder and go, listen, you know, there's this job that we don't feel like you really know much about. And John really qualified for, do you want to come do it? You have to sort of put yourself in that position.[00:09:07] And, what it sounds to me like is you're you, you, you're a bit of a sort of go getter sort of thinking, okay. Like I have to take these steps. I have to take these actions to sort of push myself to the next level. So I you're, you started your, you moved to Sydney, you've got this. Business going, how did you, like, what were the first steps?[00:09:26] What did you do? Did you, did you sort of work out suppliers first? Actually, even before we get to that, in terms of the pieces that you sell is are those. Custom paces that you design and make more of a retailer than necessarily like a designer. [00:09:43] Tahlia: [00:09:43] Yeah. So, currently at the moment, I'm definitely just a retailer.[00:09:47] So everything that falls under the Jaeke umbrella brand, I guess you say, can come from different suppliers that I have. I have a majority of the Marin Sydney, but you know, I've got a really niche brand that I work with from Byron Bay. Got a few in puff and Melbourne as well. it just depends. Where I get the stock from, but yeah, I guess when I first started, I was definitely on the phone a lot.[00:10:10] I was really putting myself out there and, you know, you, you have to, because suppliers, they have their, clothes to sell. Like they're not going to say no, they want your money. but yeah, I just put myself out there to have a little bit of money saved on the side just to buy the first few bits of stock.[00:10:27] But yeah, I just. I've run everything myself. I did the website, myself, all my socials run myself. and that's kind of what you have to do when you first starting out as well. Like you don't have much capital to play with. and yeah, that's [00:10:40] Germaine: [00:10:40] well, you're going to see if it sort of flies and if it gets traction first, especially if you're doing it, you know, Based off your savings and not like some huge cash infusion from a big sort of investor or something like that.[00:10:53] You've got to work within your limits. There's no point hiring a whole team. If you've got to fire them three months down the line, because your idea didn't even pan out, you know? so. Did you then source those supplies. So did you have an idea of what you were going to sell then build the website and then get on socials?[00:11:08] Or did you just start building the website, get on social and start creating a buzz while you worked out what pieces you were going to stop and what pieces you were going to sell? [00:11:17] Tahlia: [00:11:17] Yeah, I mean, I definitely looked at, you know, you have to think about what kind of, what stays and wherein. So I think when I first started, I was.[00:11:24] It was spring summer. I found a lot of inspiration on Pinterest, and also just looking around the market kind of what my competitors or who I would consider competitors are putting out. and then just tailoring sort of a collection around that at the same time, because I am Parisien. Like themed.[00:11:42] I definitely took on a lot of Paris trends as well at the time. And tried to fuse that into what, the first collection or first drop was going to be. but yeah, it was just more, you just got to start really, like, I'm not a big planner, as much as they say, you know, you need to work everything out. You really don't.[00:12:00] You just need to put yourself out there. I had a really nice beautician at the time. This is actually a really nice story. And she, she runs her own businesses. Well, and I remember talking to her, she's doing my eyelashes at the same time and she goes, you know, totally, you just need to start posting pictures.[00:12:16] Like, honestly, you can't just sit there and mull over what you're going to do. And when you going to post, just, just start. And I was like, you know what? You're so you're so right. And I just did, I just, I got a few models together, some of my friends, and we just took some photos and away we went.[00:12:32] Germaine: [00:12:32] Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. Right. You, you just got to start and. Cause people try and get it right the first time. Like, I can't think of anyone who's gotten it right the first time. I'm sure. Like you, you think back to even like your photos when you were like 15, you always, you always look back and go, you know, what was I doing at my hair?[00:12:52] What was I wearing at the time? Yeah. And that's all to say that you can't add the very least you're gonna, you're gonna look back at yourself and go, like I was young and silly and then like I was doing like trends change. I mean, I had the, you know, Justin Bieber, emo haircut at one point, [00:13:07] Tahlia: [00:13:07] it's trending.[00:13:08] Right? [00:13:09] Germaine: [00:13:09] Exactly. It was trending. So you look back and you go, I was very stupid to do that or that, that looked ridiculous. But at the time, That, that wasn't the case and a business is the same thing you just got to start and I'm sure you'll go back on your Instagram feed and think, ah, like what was I really thinking at that point?[00:13:24] Like it's not on brand or it's not, it's not what it is now, but then that's what it takes to mature. Like you, you, you have to do those things to understand what you should and shouldn't do what what's gonna work and what's not gonna work. You can, you can do all the research in the world, but until you actually start doing it, like it doesn't matter.[00:13:42] And then yeah. Yeah. You talked about getting your friends on board. I love that. Cause it's, to me that's like actually gathering and looking at the resources that you can tap into that you've got right there with you because another person would have said, Oh, I don't have the budget to hire models. Or I don't know any models or do it for cheap and come up with all these excuses.[00:14:02] Like, well, just, just get your friends. Like I'm sure if it's asked your friends, come around, guys, I'll give you some outfits. We'll just have fun. Take a few photos. And then you could even ask them to post and tag your tag, your brand in, in those, and sort of start to look at how you can get traction in that space.[00:14:19] Tahlia: [00:14:19] That's right. Yeah. Really a network is, there's the saying? I think your network is your net worth and yeah, definitely. It's kind of like an unplanned pregnancy, right? I haven't had, I haven't had a baby[00:14:37] I promise I'm not pregnant guys. but no, you're never going to be the most financially or emotionally ready. as you want to be. And, you know, things are definitely just not going to be perfect or you just really have to roll with it. and you've got to let go of the pressure. And, perception of what you think others might think of you as well.[00:14:56] There's a lot of stigma around that. People don't want to go for their dreams just because they think, you know, X, Y, Z is going to think I'm weird for putting myself out there on video, or, you know, you just got to not sweat the small stuff and just take, you know, take it one step at a time and have small incremental goals.[00:15:12] Germaine: [00:15:12] That's it. And one thing I've also realized is that. If you think that, you know, the pressure of starting and, and all, that's going to be really difficult and you know, you're worried about failure. It's the other side is true as well. Right? If you think that business is going to be easy, once you start doing really well, you then have another, like, you still have the same amount of problems, probably even more problems when your business is going well.[00:15:37]you know, how do you, like, let's say you guys just started selling like crazy tomorrow. How do you make that happen? How do you track? Or how do you get the shipping out in time? Because people aren't going to wait for a week for you to dispatch something. How do you handle any issues that there might be?[00:15:52] How do you source all the clothes from suppliers? How do you find those things? Like people forget that it's not, it's not just. Failure. That's, that's going to be challenging, even if you do well, it's going to be challenging. Like, I think there's this general idea that, you know, our business, like as long as I do well, like, it'll be fine.[00:16:08] It'll be easy, but it's never going to be easy. So you might as well, you know, you might as well just try and just accept that this is, this is going to be sort of your life. If that's the road you want to head down, [00:16:19][00:16:19] Like it's. Yeah. It's, it's just something that I guess comes up more and more for, for sort of even running my business.[00:16:26]seeing that, seeing that like doing well isn't isn't yeah. Gonna make it any, any, any easier, you talked about drops and we've talked to other sort of, People before that do sort of that drop model, where basically, this is just for the listeners who don't understand it is, is I guess it was really pioneered by like sneaker heads and sneakers where, you know, you waited for a certain time and then all the stock just sort of released at that point.[00:16:54] And then you'd have to wait for a little while longer again, till the next drop. Do you still sort of follow that drop model or now are you more of a. Oh like a retailer, where at any point you can just buy a different, items of clothing. [00:17:08]Tahlia: [00:17:08] look, I'd say that we are a little bit of both. we still, you know, if I ever do a shoot, everything gets done at the one time and then that will all drop on a specific day.[00:17:19]I also like to take a little bit of time and he sort of dropped, I do has a accompanying, like campaign with it. just to give. my audience, a bit more of a, you know, personalized field and they can see a video of models wearing the clothing. And it's, it's just a little bit better than just, you know, putting things up on the website.[00:17:36]COVID unfortunately has been really, just a bit of a, you know, a mess, I guess I would say for businesses everywhere, which is that, which has meant that we can't. do as many photo shoots as we've wanted to. not only that, you know, freight prices have gone up, you know, my wholesalers and suppliers, they didn't have as many stock at the beginning of the, so it really just put a little bit of a stopper on what we could do, but no, still definitely dropping clothing as they come.[00:18:05] And then also if we have a big range that we want to promote, I'm actually going up to Byron Bay soon. So. Hopefully we will have a campaign come out of that as well. And [00:18:16] Germaine: [00:18:16] yeah. Wow. that's a good segue into my next question around, so you're a retailer and that means that someone else produces the items of clothing and then you use sell it and make you Mark up those items.[00:18:30] Right. And this is more for the listeners, obviously I'm not trying to your business model. but, but to me, the biggest risk there is. Getting inferior products that don't quite live up to, to what you're aiming to do, because you're sort of relying on someone else to really push through good quality and enough volume.[00:18:51] How did you handle that? Did you, did you, I mean, you can't really? Or can you take just their word for it? If they go yeah. Italia, you know, we can definitely make that happen and you just go, okay. I believe you. Or did you have to put in a lot more work than that? [00:19:07] Tahlia: [00:19:07] Yeah. I think that's one of my, core values is definitely that any of the clothing that I sell on my website is, a hundred percent quality assured As much as we are fast fashion, we're not, we're still slow fashion in a sense.[00:19:24] Everything's checked. I try to make sure that all the material that we've got, that we use without, it's, high quality. just because I personally don't like things that are gonna break in, you know, two minutes, you want something that's durable and it's going to last. the whole process of me moving up to Sydney meant that I could go into the showrooms and check things for myself, just because you can't really tell too much from an image on a computer, or as we said, like taking the supplier's word for it.[00:19:49]at the end of the day, they still wanting to push their products out. But I guess that's a massive learning curve for me as well. you know, buying a, a pack that just didn't sell that that sucks, but you just, you roll with it and you let take a learning from it, I guess. [00:20:03] Germaine: [00:20:03] Yeah, it's, it's, you're going to always have things that don't, don't sort of fly or take off.[00:20:10] So it's, again, it's just a reality of business. Like you can't always, you can't be perfect all the time. You're you're, especially when you're saying it's selling fashion, online, your. Sort of putting a lot of pressure on yourself. If you think that it's all just going to work, because people have to look at, look at images, make, you know, make an educated guess on how it's going to fit on them and then decide if there's just so many layers.[00:20:33] It's not like buying a new phone or something like that, where it doesn't matter so much. Like, but everybody's body types are different. How do you, how do you allow for that? Like, do you have a good, like a pretty solid return policy or how do you tackle that side of things? [00:20:50] Tahlia: [00:20:50] Yeah. we definitely do have a returns policy.[00:20:52] I think it's one to 30 days. so it's definitely, you can try on the product just as long as, you know, your standard tags and things aren't removed. but to kind of avoid this and alleviate this problem, influences have been an integral part of. My branding as well. and this has just been, I try to get a whole range of sizes and goals, just so that they can test the product for themselves.[00:21:13] And if they like the product, they'll post it up on their social media. And it just gives some my audience, a little bit of reassurance and social proof that, you know, we are here for the consumer at the end of the day. And what we're putting out is, trendy affordable, and hopefully something that they loved would purchase and enjoy it.[00:21:33] Germaine: [00:21:33] Yeah. How do you tackle that? So do you, do you sort of go out and buy a whole, say know, jackets? Do you buy a whole shipment or a whole lot of jackets at first and then start handing them out to influencers? Or do you buy a small batch sort of tested? See if that's going to get traction, how do you handle that?[00:21:50] Because it's a bit of a chicken or the egg at that point, isn't it? Because you can. You don't want to have it on social media everywhere. And then someone clicks through onto your website and sees that it's not in stock, but you don't necessarily want to take all the pressure of, you know, buying a huge shipment and then hoping that it'll sell as well.[00:22:10] How do you, how do you [00:22:11] Tahlia: [00:22:11] tackle that? I mean, the, it depends on the supply. You can get some clothing on consignment, which means that, you know, you don't pay for the goods until they sell. that is really, that's just been crazy for me because. we don't have much capital to start off with when you first starting.[00:22:30] So inventory and your marketing will definitely eat at your wallet. so having, you know, clothing on consignment really helps. but also it's just, you know, with businesses just about taking a risk, you've just gotta monitor fashion trends and you know, what, other girls, the competition of putting out there, what they're liking to wear.[00:22:49] And then also tying that back into, why we started in the first place, I guess.[00:23:36] Germaine: [00:23:36] What's your competition like, and like, How did they sort of position themselves? How do you see yourself, in the market? Like, are there really big sort of giants that, that, are very much within sort of a similar market to you? Or is it fairly, you know, smaller boutiques, in terms of, and also you only sell in Australia?[00:23:59]Tahlia: [00:23:59] so we actually shipped worldwide. that was really exciting when I got a few, worldly orders, I guess I got one from the U S which ship to New Zealand and also the UK now, which is fantastic. But yeah, I mean, it's the digital age, right? You've just got to grow with the trends and. new things pop up all the time.[00:24:19] You just gotta be on top of them. I'm a huge advocate for Tik TOK. I just think that you can learn so much off of that platform and really just, you've just got to grow with the market, I guess. And otherwise you'll be left behind. but in terms of competence, On competition, the market's always going to be saturated.[00:24:37] You've just got to find your unique selling point or the USP to stand out. When I first started as well, it was all in Canberra. So I had quite this quite a dreaming, you know, the women in business down there as well. And you know, they're quite supportive. And I think that really helped us grow in the beginning.[00:24:56] Germaine: [00:24:56] Yeah. So you tapped into, I guess, tapped into that network, as much as you, you could there. [00:25:02] Tahlia: [00:25:02] Yeah, definitely. you know, there's heaps of, pages or social social platforms. Now it's all about women in business and you know, it's a girl sharing their knowledge and empowering others to, you know, start the, start them entrepreneurial journey, like no more glass ceiling.[00:25:19] Right. We can do whatever. Oh, we want, and yeah, just, I think that's what you need to grow the community first. And I'm coming from a small, I guess not country town, Canberra, but we're small. I could definitely look around and grow that way. And then since moving to Sydney, it's only gotten bigger. and so I'm pretty excited to see where it goes.[00:25:38] Germaine: [00:25:38] Yeah, that that's awesome. That's really exciting. what sort of marketing, so you've talked about influencer marketing or using influencers. Has that really been your, your main way of marketing? No. Have you spent money on say Instagram? Facebook? What, what, what's your approach been to marketing? [00:25:55] Tahlia: [00:25:55] Yeah. well basically, you know, since I had started, I had to learn a lot of skills for myself.[00:26:01]influencer marketing is one thing. don't take them for granted. You know, we really need influencers these days. They are selling our product and. They are doing it well, and they also have a reliable that loved them and love what they have to say. So I definitely think that is key and very integral to be.[00:26:20] Yeah. but of course the other one and the big one yeah. Is, digital paid ads. So, you know, Facebook and Instagram, now you need to learn Facebook business manager. You should not be boosting your posts. I don't know if anyone still does that, but please don't boost your posts. You need to get Facebook business manager.[00:26:39] And I think Facebook business manager has a, a free course now as well. So you can just go on there and learn as much as, as possible. [00:26:48] Germaine: [00:26:48] Yeah. There's so many, so many places, so many resources that you can access nowadays to just learn whether it's directly from Facebook or, and I don't think you should necessarily have to pay people.[00:26:59] I think, a lot of people make not the mistake, but think that. Paying for courses, is going to get them results. But in reality, it's the execution. And you've touched on that. A number of times, it's actually the doing and how you do it. that's going to get you results and not necessarily the feeling that you're doing it.[00:27:18]which I think some people just. Trick themselves into thinking, Oh, I'm spending a lot of money on these courses. I'm doing well. You're not really, you're just sort of paying people to ingest some information and it's more important what you do with that information than necessarily, the fact that you got the new information in the first place.[00:27:35] What do you think about that comment? Do you [00:27:37] Tahlia: [00:27:37] agree? Yeah, no, it definitely, I think, you know, you have the power to learn just as much as any agency or digital ad agency can do for you and they will charge you so much more of that. if you have the right mindset, you can definitely learn all these skills and upskill and you know, it could lead you to future opportunities as well.[00:28:01]I love learning personally, and I thought that. If and someone else can do it. Why can't I, and yeah, I've done Ronald that myself. I think I met a guy who showed me a couple of things on the site and it's just all gone well from there. Really [00:28:16] Germaine: [00:28:16] what's your website based on what platform [00:28:19] Tahlia: [00:28:19] Shopify, which is super, super easy to use.[00:28:22] And it's also, it can link, you know, your PayPal and if you have an Afterpay integration, it's quite seamless. Plus they have a variety of apps, which are super for any sort of retargeting or remarketing. and they can just slip right into your Shopify store. If you use sort of, I think there's like a Magento platform that's quite difficult to use.[00:28:43]Shopify, I don't know what they've done over there, but it's, it's really easy to use. [00:28:48] Germaine: [00:28:48] Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, we, at future theory, we build websites for clients. but for any client who can't necessarily afford to pay us to build something completely custom for them, Shopify is definitely something that we push them to because.[00:29:03] Yeah, I don't know what they've done, but they've really, really honed in, on sort of setting up a website and they're setting up a platform that's quite good, quite easy to manage, but still powerful enough, that people like you can, you know, it's not going to hinder or limit your business. working with Shopify, We've talked about, you know, your, your successes and what's worked out for you.[00:29:23]do any sort of things come to mind that, you would avoid next time around not mistakes per se, but things that, things that you can sort of, point out to someone listening, thinking of doing something similar to you? just tips that you've learned, the hard way. [00:29:36] Tahlia: [00:29:36] Yeah. I guess just you need money.[00:29:41] You need a little bit of capital to start. Just have a little bit of an emergency fund. maybe don't put all your eggs in one basket. So I guess, you know, sometimes things won't sell and that's just, that's just business. I definitely found that learnt that the hard way buying a lot of stock that didn't, that didn't sell and it just sat there for ages.[00:30:01] And I was like, wow, great. How am I going to get rid of this now? but you know, it's all learning processes and I think I'm still learning. And you know, when you're in the thick of it, moving forward is. so challenging, but when you look back, you're like, Oh yes, I did that step, which led me to this step.[00:30:16] And it all kind of works out and balances out in the end. I don't think anything's a failure. [00:30:22] Germaine: [00:30:22] Yeah. None of that stuff. Let's put it this way. If you learn from it and move forward from it. You're never gonna turn back and look at those opportunities as things that brought you down, it's where you look at it and, you know, take it too hard.[00:30:36] Take it too personally is where you can, you would turn back and sort of think about it as, as, as something that really affected you. But as long as you move forward and sort of learn and apply those learnings. At least that's what I have found. You just look back at those things as little things that, you know, next time around, I won't buy as much stock, or remember that time that I bought way too much stock and struggled to sell it.[00:30:58] It becomes more of a, more of a, sort of a talking point than necessarily a point of inflection that, that, had you sort of trending trending downwards? no, I that's. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. What, what are you hoping to do moving forward? Looking at the business. [00:31:16] Tahlia: [00:31:16] Yeah. Yeah. I always have so many plans, you know?[00:31:19]I definitely think we're still going to be, growing the community a little bit more. I I'm currently in the works of designing a couple of, Clothing items as well. However, I've been saying that for about a year now, but it is coming it's coming soon. so that's all just sort of on the back burner, but you know, new campaigns should hopefully be launching once they get up to Byron Bay.[00:31:44] I've also got. You know, I social media girl, who's going to be sitting down with me and helping me through some of my social tasks, just because it's so hard to manage these days as well. and keeping yourself accountable for posting every day. it does turn into a bit of a chore, but, yeah, it, I think the future for Jaeke is just to keep the traction, keep going, where we're going.[00:32:05]and hopefully just launch more and more clothing. [00:32:09] Germaine: [00:32:09] Yeah, that's very exciting. you talked about your community. What platforms are you on and are you using specific platforms in, in sort of certain ways to, to sort of tap into those strengths? [00:32:21] Tahlia: [00:32:21] Yeah. Yeah. So as it, like I said before, Tik TOK, I take talks only been around for, I don't even know if it's been a year, but.[00:32:31] I love tech talk, but the platform's gray. Once you get past all the silly dances and the memes and you know, all that kind of stuff, you actually get into an algorithm. And I found myself on business talk. It's a thing that business talk and this stock talk. So people talking about stocks, there's all these crazy talks, but I've found it super informative.[00:32:52] And there's some really, you know, you're just your everyday people putting up. tips and tricks and I've learnt so much from there just in really small digestible pieces of information. so I highly highly recommend lining anything for your Tik TOK community. plus there's Instagram is my main platform.[00:33:11]there's a lot of, like I said, there's the Canberra based community of entrepreneurs, but there's also. Facebook pages, and just everywhere around you really, like, I think COVID has really brought out that drive in people to start something of their own. And yeah, you can find it. You can find inspiration wherever you want.[00:33:30] Germaine: [00:33:30] Yeah. Yeah. And there's like, like we've touched on this, just so many resources out there. There's so much information that, You almost don't have a reason not to do what you're trying to do, but, you know, keeping it mind the realities of like, it doesn't have to have to quit your job to stop this. It can all, it can be a side hustle that, that you then use to replace your, your main source of income.[00:33:52] It doesn't have to be sort of an all or nothing. there's no reason why you can't do sort of what you were touching on working nights, studying during the day, and then fitting into business around it and seeing sort of how you can go from there. You you and the J collection and yeah. More about what to buy and what you guys sell as [00:34:12] Tahlia: [00:34:12] well.[00:34:12]well with main sources on Instagram, we do have a Facebook page as well. Our handle is at Jaeke dot collection, spelled J a K E. You got to say it with the correct tone. but we've also on Pinterest. We've got a Tik TOK account now. we do have a YouTube, but nothing much has been posted on there yet.[00:34:32]so any social channel, just search for Jacob collection and you'll find that [00:34:36] Germaine: [00:34:36] and your website. [00:34:37] Tahlia: [00:34:37] So www Jaeke and it's hyphened color section.com. [00:34:42] Germaine: [00:34:42] Nice. Awesome. are you ready for the top 12? [00:34:45] Tahlia: [00:34:45] Yeah, let's do it. [00:34:46] Germaine: [00:34:46] Yeah. AK. So top three books or podcasts that you recommend. [00:34:51] Tahlia: [00:34:51] Yeah. So I, if I'm completely honest, I used to love writing.[00:34:55] Don't get me wrong, but in racing he is, I haven't really read all that much. in saying that I did read so fear, I'm a Rosso, she's the founder of nasty Galvin dige. she's kind of similar, you know, similar to most people, I guess she was a college, not similar to everyone, but she was a college dropout.[00:35:13] Didn't really know what to do with her life. She had a knack for thrifting and, this was kind of back in the, I think it was the eBay and my space age. She was uploading photos and now she's sort of running two really successful businesses. And her book was just all about the highs and lows and, you know, not being this.[00:35:32] Entrepreneur that people might think that you should be when you first started was she just started from the bottom. another one that I will, that I've read as well is just the fashion manual by fashion airy. it's basically like a visual guide on how to start your own business, from a. Sort of product and branding perspective.[00:35:56]so if anyone's ever interested in that, I definitely recommend reading that one. It will say all the people you can meet in the industry, as well as you know, how to, find suppliers or, you know, set the tone for your website. And it's all in a visual guide. It's really quite nice. [00:36:12] Germaine: [00:36:12] Yeah, that's really interesting.[00:36:15] Is there a third? Is there a [00:36:16] Tahlia: [00:36:16] thing one again is tick-tock that drain bull? There's not much to read, but you just learn information from that. I'm quite a visual learner as well. I can't sit and don't really have the patience to read books these days, but anything that's quick, easy digestible that will sit in my brain.[00:36:33] Germaine: [00:36:33] Yeah. Awesome. top three software tools that you can't live without. [00:36:37] Tahlia: [00:36:37] Can't live with that. Clavio. so for those who don't know what it is, it's a email and SMS remarketing platform. and basically it makes it easy to send out daily ABMS, to your client list. I guess, and you can send out, you know, discounts, vouchers, you can do a and B testing on there.[00:36:58] See what images work, what don't. and it really just brings back those people that you might've lost business with back onto the store. And it's highly, highly, highly recommend that one. another one would be of course, Facebook business manager. This is all your digital marketing tool and where you can do all your paid ads.[00:37:17] You definitely need this when you're first starting out. even if you don't put too much money in, you need to have that presence, that presence, to, you know, go out to like a core, a cold audience, essentially. so they know about your business. and then thirdly, I use a lot of apps apps on my phone.[00:37:32] I'd love to do everything on my phone. So I have an app called iconic square, which is a post scheduling, tool. So if you're very time poor, you can actually, the week before plan out what you're going to do. I use an app called preview to do that. You can move around, you know, how your. Social feed is going to look upload that onto iconic square.[00:37:53]and they also give you a bunch of metrics as well. You can spy on competitors. What the best hashtags are. You can see, your own metrics, what people are liking, how many views, et cetera, et cetera. Hashtag expert is a great app as well. If you're time poor for hashtags, just download that type in your niche.[00:38:12] Whatever it is, it could be women in business and it will come up with a thousand hashtags that you can use and you just click them all save, upload onto your post. Easy. [00:38:22] Germaine: [00:38:22] I feel like those last two, like I've heard of both of those before, but I feel like you're like talking directly to me because, I've been, yeah.[00:38:31] Meaning to like really kickstart my, Instagram presence, again, my, my personal social presence. but it's always a time thing. I do a lot of photography and I have so many, I have thousands of photos that I want to share, but I always get to this point where I'm like, you know, I've, it is a chore, especially when there's just so many other things there's clients that, you know, need to hear back from us partners that we need to talk to.[00:38:53]so yeah, I I'm definitely, I think this long weekend though, silly me. I, I booked in some, a few things on the Mondays. I don't have the long weekend properly, but it's an opportunity to download icon lately [00:39:06] Tahlia: [00:39:06] a hundred previous. Yeah. Great. Just because you can customize how you want the feed to look.[00:39:12]what else do I use? I use quite a few things for making your stories as well. I think there's an app called what's called Margo and it like, you know, didn't not digitalize, it kind of animates everything that you want to put on your story and they have heaps of templates and things that you can scroll through and add your own posts and photos.[00:39:33]I definitely use. All of these apps at once. You know, there's so many, I think that just go through your app store, if there's some sort of, you know, thing that you're lacking or you'd like to learn more about, or you need help with there's an app, right? [00:39:47] Germaine: [00:39:47] Yeah. Yeah. It's such a good tip. Such a good tip.[00:39:50]top three mantras, you try and live by. [00:39:52] Tahlia: [00:39:52] Yeah. So this was, this was a hard one, but there was one that I, that I heard recently where it was, if you achieve all your goals, you're not being ambitious enough. So you should always dream big. And that really stood out to me. I was like, Damn, you know, that surgery, there's always room for improvement.[00:40:11] And I think that you, like, you should be more ambitious and you shouldn't have all your goals met and there's always something bigger and better to achieve. another one that I, feel very connected to is your, you are the most valuable, investment you'll ever make. So that's, you know, whether that's knowledge that you're acquiring or.[00:40:31] You know, upskilling yourself on something. The more that you do to invest in yourself, the better the outcome for yourself later on will be. And then one that I've read on the internet, it's you don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great. And I think that resonated quite well with me.[00:40:50] Germaine: [00:40:50] Yeah. Yeah, there's a whole, yeah, those hot hitting, but true, true mantras and things that I, this is a thing I'm not a very, you know, sort of, I'm not the kind of person to rely on mantras, but it, but it's sort of something to remember something to tell yourself when things get a little bit difficult or even when you know your, your.[00:41:11] On Instagram, about to post, but second guessing yourself, or she's got to remember, you just got to do this now you got to start. and it's more important that you start then, then, necessarily get the perfect photo with the perfect filter up on, on your Instagram. It's just so crucial. top three people you follow.[00:41:29] Why? [00:41:30] Tahlia: [00:41:30] So the main person that I don't really idolize too many people, but this girl stands out to me just because she is in a very similar Bart to how I would say my entrepreneurial journey started out as, so it's Jane leu and she is the founder of Showpo. she. Back in the day, started her business in 2010 and she was, you know, working for KPMG.[00:41:54] She was a financial analyst or something like that. And, she decided to quit her job in the middle of the fight, the financial crisis. And just start up a online store and mind you back then. people weren't essentially buying online. It was a new thing. She was kind of a. She had a first movers advantage when you paid the ads on Facebook, it was showing it to everyone.[00:42:17] There was no cap. And so she really tapped into that market. and I just find her so inspiring, because she's exactly like me. She just started from nowhere and he, she is, she's turning into revenue of over $60 million a year. No, I think that's even an old figure now she's probably doing more, and yeah, find inspirational.[00:42:36]other people that I follow, again, these are all tick-tock based people, your everyday people, but there is a handle there called small business advice. there's this lady called Koch, K O H and M. She's an ex Google employee, and she kind of gives a little tips and tricks on how to run, learn website or how to reach out to customers and just little business advice tips, which I found quite useful.[00:43:02]and then another one, which I just liked to follow is a handle called product design. I think I'm not entirely sure what this lady's name is, but she just goes on about UX designs and customer experience, which, plays a huge pot for us. And, you know, you essentially want someone to buy something off your website within three clicks, and she kind of delves into, the science behind all that and where you should be positioning things on your website.[00:43:27] So definitely, quite inspiring to watch her. [00:43:33] Germaine: [00:43:33] Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. I think the biggest thing, the takeaway from this episode for me is, just your sort of belief and, and, you know, I, I believe in that as well is, is one is just getting all this knowledge as much as possible and always sort of be, be learning and tapping into like using social media.[00:43:51] I think. People think social media is just like a blanket, bad thing. When in reality it's a good thing. If you know what to look for and follow the right people. and then the other thing is just like knowing and having the right mindset of you just gotta, you just gotta learn, you sort of push through and you just got to go through and you'll be fine.[00:44:10] Tahlia: [00:44:10] Yeah. I mean, people are consuming content so differently these days, just when you think. Oh, you know, that per there's so many people doing, you know, having a business of fashion business, or I've seen that so many times, you'd be surprised that no one's consuming content the way you are. And it might be the first time they've ever seen something that you come up with and, you know, you.[00:44:32] You can be your worst critique, but there's definitely people watching you that are cheering you on, or maybe they're even sights slightly, a little bit jealous, but you just need to push on. And, my biggest piece of advice is learn as much as you can, and go for it. [00:44:47] Germaine: [00:44:47] What a great, great note to finish on.[00:44:50]thank you for your time Italia. really enjoyed our conversation.
Thursday Nov 05, 2020
Thursday Nov 05, 2020
On this episode of the podcast, we had a chance to chat with the founder of Send and Shred, Jo Clay. For those who don’t know, Send and Shred is an E-commerce business that allows companies to dispose of their sensitive documents in an environmentally friendly manner and ensure this waste does not end up in landfill. Naturally, this business idea was spurred on by Jo’s passion for sustainability, which she discusses throughout the episode alongside the trials and tribulations of starting a niche online business. More specifically, Jo discusses why she chose a lean business model for her company as well as the financial viability of the recycling industry.
In the time between recording and publishing this interview, Jo was elected as a member of parliament in the Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly representing the Greens. In the later parts of the episode, she details the process behind running a political campaign and what she hopes to achieve during her tenure in parliament. Additionally, Jo provides her stance on the role government agencies have in supporting sustainable businesses.
What we talk about
The recent ACT election
Environmentally sustainable businesses
The financial advantages of starting an online company
Links from this episode
https://www.facebook.com/joclayginninderra (Jo on Facebook)
https://www.sendandshred.com.au/ (Send and Shred)
Find us elsewhere
https://futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe Website)
https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)
https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)
https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)
Thursday Oct 29, 2020
Thursday Oct 29, 2020
After a brief hiatus, the Future Tribe team is back with an all-new season of the show. We are excited to bring you some of our best interviews yet, as well as some other valuable content that will hopefully help you make your goals come true. To kick us off, Germaine sat down with Futuretheory’s new marketing coordinator, Kelsey Allen, to discuss Futuretheory’s recent rebrand and website launch. During the episode, our team members discuss what rebranding campaigns are meant to achieve and what the process looked like for us internally. This leads to a more general discussion about what constitutes branding, how to align your branding with your company’s market position, and how branding can affect business functions such as recruitment as well as sales.
What we talk about
Brand personality
Logo design
Aligning brand elements with company values
Join the community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/joinfuturetribe/
Links from this episode
https://futuretheory.com.au/podcast/ (Future Tribe Website)
https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)
https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)
https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors
Germaine: [00:00:00] Hello, Future Tribe and welcome to season three of the podcast. you'll notice actually that there's a few things that have changed this season, a few things with the podcasts, with the podcast cover with the intro and things like that. So I'd really love to hear what you think about. These changes that we've made this season is a little bit different.
[00:01:08] It'll feature all the usual conversations, but we'll also hear from three of our team members at feature theory, the team behind the podcast behind the Future Tribe podcast. if you didn't know, that's a good segue to get into our first guests this season on this episode. And that's Kelsey's our marketing communications coordinator.
[00:01:28] And she's here to discuss, a few of the changes that I've mentioned above and a few of the changes that we're making at Futuretheory. How are you today, Kelsey?
[00:01:36] Kelsey: [00:01:36] I'm good. Thank you. How are you going to Germaine?
[00:01:38] Germaine: [00:01:38] Good. Good. it's a little bit funny because we're in two different rooms, recording, but it's the best way that we could think of Jamaica to happen.
[00:01:47]tell us a little bit first about sort of your experience and then. Tell me a little bit about your experience of feature theory when you applied for the role of what two, three months ago.
[00:02:00] Kelsey: [00:02:00] Yeah. Gosh, it does. It feels like it's gone very quickly actually, but yeah, it's about that time now.
[00:02:05]so yeah. my background in marketing, graduated from Monash with a bachelor of business in marketing, and I've worked at across a few different roles. In the past few years as I'm developing career, I'm one of those included being in London, which was an incredible experience, really loved that.
[00:02:19]and that was at a pharmaceutical company, internal comms, and also, various marketing comms roles, just, developing different companies, outward facing personas, so yeah, when I I dunno, it's a bit of an interesting story of how I came to Canberra. Not sure if it's appropriate for right now, I can go into that a different time.
[00:02:37]I found myself in Canberra during COVID and had some time to spare. So I was like, Oh, let's see what's out there. and this role popped up for Futuretheory as marketing coordinator for a couple of days a week. And I thought, wow, this looks great. It would be a fantastic way to continue to develop my career in a sort of local environment and everything.
[00:02:54]supplied for the role came in, had an interview with humane. We are now.
[00:02:58] Germaine: [00:02:58] So yeah,
[00:03:01]Kelsey: [00:03:01] exactly. And yeah, it was just a, an opportunity to really take a bit of ownership in the company. and. help take a company somewhere as well. with the team of very clearly passionate people. So super excited to be here.
[00:03:15] Germaine: [00:03:15] Yeah. Yeah. And, we should say in, you have been offered a full-time role, so you'll be coming on and around a lot more, you were with us part-time but you'll be around a lot more. Part of the reason why we hired you, was that we were looking for someone to look at Futuretheory, look at Future Tribe and look at everything that we're doing.
[00:03:34] And I guess look at it from an external in point of view. cause what I found was thinking about the business, thinking about everyone involved was that everyone who was already involved. Had almost what's the saying, like where you can't, when you're, so like in the forest, you can't see the trees or something like that, or your, we were so lost in it that we didn't necessarily see everything from the outside in.
[00:03:59] Did you, when you first saw Futuretheory and was exposed to the brand. What sort of first impressions did you get? What did you understand about what we do?
[00:04:09]Kelsey: [00:04:09] Yeah, that's an interesting question. Cause I think, part of the application process was, a bit of a practical application, where you asked.
[00:04:16] Some notes on the website, for example. and I think from memory, I might've ripped into it a lot.
[00:04:22] Germaine: [00:04:22] Hey, that's what we liked. We were looking for someone with honesty. So
[00:04:26] Kelsey: [00:04:26] Exactly. yeah, the website. Did what it needed to do to an extent, but I think I initially just saw a lot of opportunity for development.
[00:04:34]and to take it a little bit further, specifically looking at the website, beyond that, I I think I had a, quite a generic understanding of what the business was. just in the context of the space that the work that you do is in, But then, I guess coming into the interview process, it was very clear, the passion and everything that you Damien the rest of the team have for what you do.
[00:04:56] And I think for me, I saw a bit of a disconnect between the website and speaking to you in the interview and how they were presented so differently. So many, first impressions were that the website just wasn't doing the company justice. And there's a lot of opportunities to develop further on that.
[00:05:11] Germaine: [00:05:11] Yeah. And that's something that we identified as well, is that, every organization that we work with, basically all our clients have build something. They work on something with them, they make it themselves, or they get someone to develop it a few years ago thing before they come to us.
[00:05:26] And what we find is that, and ironically enough, we were in a similar position. What we found and what we find is that people just it just it's enough for a little while. So you just create that and you let it stay. And do you get stagnant, where in reality and organization, especially an organization that's thriving continues to change and continues to evolve, and it's important that our website and everything that you do represents that, For us, we'd when we built that website, it was not that long ago, but we were at sort of a point where we were starting to ramp up and things have changed a fair bit since then.
[00:06:04]when we introduced the podcast presence on the website was very sort of ad hoc. I don't know if you felt like if it looked like it to you, but it looked like it was just like. Glued in just attached as this side thing. did you see things like that through the website and through your initial interaction before you came in?
[00:06:25]Kelsey: [00:06:25] yeah, I suppose a little bit, Yeah. As I said, it just didn't feel like an overly cohesive yeah. Sort of website, that pulled together and communicated really effectively what you guys do and all the passion and everything. and I think, yeah, when it comes to the podcast as well, obviously that wasn't, as present, I think when you did the website, so checking that on afterwards, it's quite easy to fall into that trap of not considering it as.
[00:06:49] Part of the overall website, and having it tacked on in that sense.
[00:06:53]Germaine: [00:06:53] yeah. And then when he joined, we had a logo, we had the bones of some sort of brand, but I think what we've done over the last, just the last few months is really start to flesh things out. and what we needed was this external person.
[00:07:08] And I keep telling Kelsey, we want to get all this stuff done from. get, I guess Kelsey's output before she gets into the second mentality. Not that it's a bad mentality, you become part of it. And then you just don't see, or don't always see the bits and pieces that a completely independent third party might see.
[00:07:27] So we just tried to over the last few months, what you will see is, and. Tomorrow or, on the Friday. So this episode will come out on a Thursday as usual. And on the Friday we'll be launching our new website. What you also see with that is that feature there is now got a new logo, a new website, and we've taken the time to really consider who we are, what we are and position ourselves and make sure that the whole website.
[00:07:53] Is a true reflection of that. So if you want to, I guess I want to get into a little bit about rebranding because it's not, I think some people see it as a very like easy thing, where people just want to, they just want to start like current new logo. They just want it. They just want to do it.
[00:08:11] And it's so easy, but let's get into a little bit about what should be considered, when you're looking at Creating a new logo, creating a new brand, or at least refreshing and replacing what you already had because there's some equity with any logo, especially if you're a functioning business.
[00:08:28]So it's not a, it's not a light task like for us. how many we worked on hundreds of different sort of ideas.
[00:08:37] Kelsey: [00:08:37] Yeah, I think we had about 250 sketches all up and that's just the sketches beyond just what's going on with the thoughts and all the other process and everything is
[00:08:47]Germaine: [00:08:47] ended up putting on paper.
[00:08:48]let's talk about the, that process. What we were doing, where was that? Essentially different people were coming up with ideas and then they were doing some self selection and then presenting it to everyone. And, we were discussing it, but I think for me, one of the big things that came out of that conversation was that we were looking for a logo that was simple enough.
[00:09:09]condensed down to the bare minimum while still being unique while still representing Futuretheory while still being flexible. And a big thing that I picked up from this whole journey was that it was, we wanted to come up with a logo and I think this applies to most organizations. Yeah. we wanted to come up with a logo that didn't have any negatives rather than a logo that had a whole bunch of.
[00:09:32] Positives, because I feel like you can fall into the trap of coming up with a perfect logo that fits all these. Arbitrary requirements. Do you agree with that?
[00:09:44] Kelsey: [00:09:44] Yeah, a hundred percent. it was interesting going through the whole process of it and realizing, I guess from the initial stages of, we need a new logo to then figuring out what actually really had to go into the logo.
[00:09:56] It was a lot. and I think we went back and forth between trying to put a lot into it and trying to communicate. A lot of things and then scaling it back and then going back and forth a lot. And I guess just seeing all the different iterations that all of the team members were coming up with as well, it was really interesting to work together on that with all the different viewpoints and what we were trying to achieve with it.
[00:10:15]but I think we ended up at a really nice spot, which as you said, wasn't trying to achieve all of these amazing positive things and have this like incredible our logo. Just having something that. Isn't you know, offensive, And it's, it just does the job as it needs to do. It'll last a while before we have to revisit it again and it's know really versatile and usable.
[00:10:35] And then I think that's what we've ended up with, which is really,
[00:10:38] Germaine: [00:10:38] yeah. And when it comes to a logo, that's the important thing and a lot of people, and another thing that we came up with is that we didn't need a logo. Shouldn't be an explainer of what you do. It should be an identifier of.
[00:10:51] Who you are, in the sense that the Nike tick or the McDonald's golden arches, don't actually tell you that, Nike is a sportswear brand or that McDonald's is a fast-food franchise. what they do tell you though, is that this is McDonald's and this is Nike. and. There's a little bit of a difference between logo and brand as well.
[00:11:10]and we'll get into that shortly because for anyone thinking about a logo, thinking about rebranding or thinking about designing a new logo and setting up a new logo, I think it's important to think about the difference between the two. so as we wrap up the logo side of things, I guess this is just us saying, when you think about your logo, think about something that just works in as many instances as possible.
[00:11:34] And to an extent doesn't evoke too much, positive or negative feeling, because I think when it, when something does that means that it's polarizing in some way. And when something's polarizing, that generally tends to be, it tends to mean that it has some sort of. Time limit on it, some sort of finite sort of restrictions, because a trend is going to pass or a colour’s going to go out of fashion or, the boss of the business is going to change or the marketing manager is going to change.
[00:12:05] And suddenly you end up with, it's a polarizing thing and the other person is on the opposite end of what the original people felt. And then you're stuck having to change it.
[00:12:15] Kelsey: [00:12:15] Yeah, exactly. and I think, polarizing can be good for some companies, but it's very difficult to pull off and you just don't really want to be going down that path.
[00:12:23]as you said, as well with colours, we an interesting thing we did go through with changing the Futuretheory, blue just slightly but enough that it wasn't quite In your face, which I think was a really good exercise. I'm pretty happy with that as well.
[00:12:35]Germaine: [00:12:35] it was all part of maturing as well.
[00:12:37] Like originally a few years ago, our original colours were purple and yellow and they were like, they were completely blinded and there were neon
[00:12:45] Kelsey: [00:12:45] and 10 got less to put together,
[00:12:47] Germaine: [00:12:47] really work together either. But the whole point at that time was to hand people say a business card that was almost like, I think of it as like a business card that was like, Glowing like uranium, because it was, we were young.
[00:13:00] We were happy to be polarizing because at the time being different, let us stand out. But then as we've matured, we then ended up with the blue. That was still a fairly intense blue, because we were still On the journey to maturing. And then now that we've reached a position where, we've nowhere near reached all the people who we want to reach as featured theory as a brand, but we've reached a place where we can start to mature.
[00:13:27] We can stop to be a little bit. A little bit more palatable to more people. because we don't need to stand out to a minority. We need to be accepted by a majority because we can, we have the capacity to help more people as well. And that was part of that journey. And if you're listening to this, I could all, I would also add.
[00:13:46] Think about having one colour for your yellow look, one colour for your brand. You might have different colours in your logo, but try and have as few elements as possible when it comes to your logo, when it comes to colours, fonts, things like that, because nowadays everyone's just low attention. Hard to keep attention hard to get attention.
[00:14:05] So you want us? Yeah, exactly. And within a couple of seconds, if you have too many things to notice people, aren't going to remember all those things. it's much easier to show someone two things for five seconds than to show someone 10 things for a one-second date, what's more likely to be remembered and that's what we had to go through as well.
[00:14:24] And, look into the colour psychology. Like it's. Crazy. When you look into college psychology, all the meanings behind colours and things like that. But let's now get into it brand a little bit. What would you define as branding as obviously, it's more than just the logo, because the logo for anyone listening a logo is literally, a symbol, a sign, some texts, that is an identifier of your it's like a signature.
[00:14:51] But what's branding. How would you put it, Kelsey?
[00:14:55] Kelsey: [00:14:55] That's a big question. yeah, branding, it's an interesting one. but I'm in branding really encompasses, everything about who you are. and it does go beyond just that visual element of the logo. as we have touched on, it mentioned, the colours for example, but it also talks about brand personality and that really initial understanding of your business.
[00:15:17] From those visual cues from how you interact with people from even sometimes like location of office can be really interesting one. And especially in Canberra, there's certain areas that can be like young and trendy or, where you choose can impact your brand because it can communicate certain things about who you are and what you want to be.
[00:15:34]it's gosh, yeah, branding's a whole different podcast that you could go into really it's such a massive topic to go into, but yeah, I think for us,
[00:15:41] Germaine: [00:15:41] Do you think it's fair to say that a logo is someone's signature and, but the brand is your personality, what you wear, how you wear it, what you care, like, how you carry yourself, to an extent where you work and where you live as well.
[00:16:43] Kelsey: [00:16:43] Yeah, exactly. and I think branding is super important as well for the people that you're working with, because for them, they want to be working with somebody they identify with, they want who they want to be. For example, all those different. targets that you're going for with your brand can influence who's coming to work with you really.
[00:17:01]it's a
[00:17:02] Germaine: [00:17:02] very important, massive job. No, I don't think I've I counted the number of times that I've I was talking to the team and I was explaining to you guys like our ultimate goal isn't to build more websites isn't to design more logos. It is to help more people make something of, make their goals come true, whatever they may be, whether it's to right behind Kelsey, if you're watching the video, she's, she's in our meeting room.
[00:17:27] So there's that we've put up a slogan behind that every client that comes in can see what we're trying to do. and she's pointing it out, for a little while there you, no one else apart from myself and Damien, who's a visit director of the business as well. Apart from us, or even Damien, to an extent didn't really get what we were working towards.
[00:17:46]and the more we've started to flesh it out, the more we've talked about brand and branding and our services, I think you guys have come closer and closer to understanding the ultimate goal, which is to help people make their goals come true. and not necessarily build more websites or, execute more marketing strategies or.
[00:18:05] Anything like that. And like you were touching on Kelsey, having a solid brand means that when you employ someone, they would you say they even self-select because they, I would say so, right? Like you wouldn't apply to work with a company that you disagree with.
[00:18:21] Kelsey: [00:18:21] Absolutely. And that's such a massive thing as well in the recruitment process these days, that's why values and things are.
[00:18:27] So significant and that sort of plays into the whole brand because it is who you stand for. And it's very difficult, even from a client sort of side of things, working with a company and teaming up with the company. If you don't agree with the values of who they are or what they're trying to do, it's very hard to But you just wouldn't, you just wouldn't do it.
[00:18:43] Germaine: [00:18:43] Yeah. It wouldn't make any sense to go in, walk in the door, thinking to yourself, ah, we disagree on a few, important points, but we're still going to try and work together like that. Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
[00:18:56] Kelsey: [00:18:56] It's just not going to be a good relationship from the start.
[00:18:59] Germaine: [00:18:59] And I feel Anyone and everyone should be thinking about not just their logo, but that branding as well, because branding comes in mean for even things what you post on Instagram or social media, how you sign off on emails, what your email signature looks like? How do you answer the phone?
[00:19:17]do you answer the phone, say, hello, this is Futuretheory, Germaine Muller. The director is speaking with you. How can I help you? audio, just say, hi, Futuretheory. Germaine -speaking help. how can I help Germaine speak and just leave it at that, like even small things like that affect your brand, because you're also talking to talking in a way that, I guess pushes forward, who you want to work with as well.
[00:19:39]we really enjoy being, quiet. Casual is probably the wrong word, maybe informal with how we do things, but then being very formal with how we report and how we track and how we look at, the results that we generate. because for us in our, we, and it applies to. we work with as well.
[00:19:58]we care more about the results, than necessarily how someone looks or what someone wears and our brand, I think encompasses that. would you agree with that, Kelsey?
[00:20:09] Kelsey: [00:20:09] I think so. and I think another part of it as well is just. In that sort of informal versus formal focusing the formal stuff on, as you said, results and things, but having that informality so that when we do have people, clients coming in or meeting with people, it's not a stressful thing where, all of us have to dress up and it's, really cutthroat kind of stuff.
[00:20:27] It's just. Casual conversation and we're free to have open discussions about things and it really sets a good mood for working with the clients that we do work. But
[00:20:35] Germaine: [00:20:35] yeah, because we want to hear when, if we've not done something that they're happy with or not quite say ticking the right boxes.
[00:20:43] We want to hear that from our clients. And we want to set a tone that's completely fine. Please let us smoke. Because at the end of the day, we want to make your goals come true. We don't necessarily want to leave every meeting with, feeling happy and, having, feeling like we're on top of the world.
[00:20:56] That's not what we're after. because if your goals aren't being met, if you're not ticking things off, then we need to be unhappy. because. Because that's what we exist to do. and we do that in a multitude of ways, that we've generally outline into five different areas.
[00:21:12] That's, websites, marketing, and design. So that sort of encompasses our professional services. And then we get into community and the podcast. Which sort of gets into our other two areas at this point, we've got more things happening, but, it's still a little bit too early to announce the other things, but this is, I guess my segue later into.
[00:21:33] Feature tribe, the, and the community side of things. So you would have noticed if you feel listening to this episode that we've got a new intro, we've actually got a new podcast cover as well, and more of a logo for Future Tribe. And then part of that is they were very excited to launch our Facebook group, which is our effort to build out a community of people who, basically optimistic go get as who want to do.
[00:21:59] Amazing things with their lives, whatever they may be. We want to be there to support you. And we want to be there to, assist you and help you and enable you to make your goals come true. Is there anything that I've missed with that little sphere?
[00:22:14] Kelsey: [00:22:14] No, I think that's a pretty comprehensive, elevator pitch for it.
[00:22:17]obviously within the group, we'll be able to explain a little further about. Some of the discussions and things we'll be able to have, but I think you've covered
[00:22:23] Germaine: [00:22:23] it pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it's very new. We've attempted to do it in the past, but we haven't really had the resourcing to do but we're really investing into this moving forward.
[00:22:32] We've got a lot of content coming out on the website, on the Futuretheory website, we've got the Facebook group. so this, Is a bit of a call out to you, the listener to anyone listening, please check us out. We'll have all the links in the description. have a look at our new website when it launches, on the last Friday of October.
[00:22:52] So that's the 30th of October. we'll be launching our web new website, as always we'd love to hear. What you think about all of this, what you think about what we've done. And of course, we'd love to hear if we can, help you with any of this, moving forward. I think that is there anything else that we haven't talked about, Kelsey, that, is worth mentioning?
[00:23:14] Kelsey: [00:23:14] No. I think you've pretty much covered it all. I guess in a little bit of a summary, everything was doing at the moment is a very like deliberate push, in the future direction of Futuretheory, and what we're trying, what we're trying to do in terms of the community and everything.
[00:23:28]and I think even with, as we were talking about with the branding and that really informal sort of stuff, this new Facebook group that we're building is an extension of that in a way, where it's just. Enabling that open communication just to have chats and get that assistance and whatever, you want it to be it's.
[00:23:44] Yeah. It's really exciting. Really looking forward to it all moving forward.
[00:23:47] Germaine: [00:23:47] Yeah. it's all new. It's it's exciting. But at the same time, I think it's scary with anything new. we're really putting our necks out there trying to do all these things. but ultimately, we come from a position and a place of believing that, we exist to help as many people as we can.
[00:24:04] And there are so many, like knowledge is power, and we wanna, we want to start, sharing all these things with everyone. We want to be transparent as possible with what we do as well. I think, A lot of organizations, companies think that holding their cards close to their chest is a positive thing.
[00:24:20]or something that they need to do to protect themselves. But I think, we perhaps represent a little bit of a shift, in companies moving forward. I think there's a lot more sharing happening nowadays. There's a lot more transparency. And while that's it's a bit, it's scary because we're really being candid about everything.
[00:24:40]and that just means that we can't filter out the bad things that happen and we can't filter out the mistakes that are made, but it helps us, helps us provide value. that's what it comes down to.
[00:24:50] Kelsey: [00:24:50] Yeah, for sure. and I think having that sort of open honest conversation and everything, even if it is the negatives, it can only be positive, which is a bit of a weird thing to say.
[00:25:00] But, I think people really value that openness and, even if there is negatives, it's more sort of lessons learned. And, the more that you're exposed to that sort of stuff, if you're seeing other people do things and they're like, Hey, here's how not to do it, then you don't have to go through it yourself.
[00:25:14] And, it can only be positive. It can only build
[00:25:15] Germaine: [00:25:15] from there, even on the other end of, Hey, we ourselves went through so many different iterations of a logo, for example, like I think back to, what we've done. And there are so many things that I'm just thinking in my head, We would never do this with a client because we know doesn't work, but then we go down the same road ourselves and we do it because I don't even know, I guess it's just because we're human.
[00:25:38] We just lose that self control when it's all internal. And we're just like, okay, we're going to call it with 250 different variations.
[00:25:46]Kelsey: [00:25:46] it does not say us coming up with that many and I was absolutely shocked when we counted them up. And I'm sure that there's more, that we just.
[00:25:51] Germaine: [00:25:51] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:52] Like stuff that's just been sketched on bits and pieces that have not been collated and collected. because when it comes to logos, like just yesterday, we, did a presentation to a client and. I showed them two different logo options. And that was it. And internally we may have gone through 10 to 15, but he had already 250 that's a lot.
[00:26:14] I just don't, I can't think of a project where we would have had to do that, but I think that just speaks to our heart. It is to do branding and logo for yourself. And I think I've even seen that happen. in other mediums, I don't know if you've had that experience where sort of a client tries to do something internally, and then they come to you.
[00:26:33] And because you're looking in from the outside, you can make decisions, you can make calls and make, I guess educated. Perception sort of decisions and choices that, this is not advertising our services, but at the end of the day, we can look in from the outside and make you like decide things and make you, decipher what you're feeling much easier than you can internally with all your, Thoughts and things that you've come up with and things that your family members have said, or your partners have said in the past.
[00:27:06] And, I
[00:27:06] Kelsey: [00:27:06] think externally you definitely get, you can be a lot more brutally honest. you sorta not weighed down in all these different opinions and. you just not biased. And I think that's a really important thing. And I think for us even may coming in new-ish, but understanding the business now for we were going through all of this logo design, the reason we got to 250 plus is because we're we are involved in it as it is harder to take that external look at it and be really brutally honest with yourself.
[00:27:33]as much as you force yourself to. You just, as you said, we're human, you got stuck in it.
[00:27:38] Germaine: [00:27:38] Yeah. And I think part of that is as well, is something else that I really learned through this was that we need a logo and we need branding that represents, who we want to be and who we will be in the future.
[00:27:50] Not necessarily just representing who we are and even more critically who we were. and I think when you're coming from at it from an internal point of view, Most people end up representing who they were and who the business was because you think about, all the clients that you used to work with, you might still work with them, but you think about the past and you think about who you are now versus what you really need to be doing is thinking about who you want to be, where you want to go aspirational, because.
[00:28:24] Otherwise, what happens when, 12 months down the line you've grown so much and you've changed so much that you're now actually representing yourselves with this outdated imagery and brand. Yeah. So it's a bit of, it's a bit of a trap and even asking. I think asking too many people for their opinion as well, I think can be a little bit, yeah.
[00:28:44] Kelsey: [00:28:44] Yeah. Very easy trap to fall into, but you Oh, I hadn't, I need all these opinions, but you just, you don't need all the opinions.
[00:28:51]Germaine: [00:28:51] you think you do right? Because you're like, Oh, we're just gonna have to go based off. What are all these other people think? But then within a business, who do you ask?
[00:28:58]you're not, you're never asking, potential customers, what they think of your. branding and logo you end up asking is your partner, your staff, people who already have these very solidified ideas about who you are, who your brand is. They have very solid ideas of. Not necessarily who you're going to be either.
[00:29:20]because really you're the only one who has that. And then ultimately they're not going to be your customer. They're not going to be able
[00:29:26] Kelsey: [00:29:26] to find no, you're not your target market. So
[00:29:28] Germaine: [00:29:28] it doesn't matter.
[00:29:29] Kelsey: [00:29:29] I'm asking the wrong person anyway.
[00:29:30] Germaine: [00:29:30] Yeah. In the wrong person. And that's another thing that you quickly mentioned there, the target market.
[00:29:36]that's another exercise that, we really had to go through to define who our target groups are. Our target markets are, because. When we know who we're talking to, we can talk to them much easier, simple example of, if you were talking to someone who only speaks French, you're not going to speak to them in English.
[00:29:54] Are you so happened? Just
[00:29:57] Kelsey: [00:29:57] crazy. Exactly. We're getting anywhere with that.
[00:29:58] Germaine: [00:29:58] Exactly. and that applies to other Democrats or other sort of. I guess characteristics of a target market, their age, their gender, what stage of life they're in, what their budget is because, if you're trying to sell a hundred thousand dollar car to someone who's looking for their first car and they're just, turn 17, you're not going to have a lot of luck.
[00:30:21]
[00:30:21] Kelsey: [00:30:21] yeah. Gosh.
[00:30:22]Germaine: [00:30:22] it applies to everyone and anyone as well, like you should be thinking about these things. So that was a bit of a protracted end to this episode. We ended up going off in tangents, but this is all really important to anyone who's thinking about branding logo, design, just brand in general.
[00:30:40]I also hope that it was a nice little explainer, a bit of a bit of an inside look as to why we are doing what we're doing in terms of the Futuretheory, rebrand in terms of Future Tribe, rebranding, like I mentioned at the start of this episode. So this is our first conversation with, one of.
[00:30:56] Three of our team members who will be guesting on this season. we've also got a conversation with Hayden and I hate is the podcast editor, manager. So we'll be talking about a few things in midseason, and then we'll actually be finishing off. This season of the podcast with a conversation with, Damien who's also director in the business.
[00:31:17] And, what we'll be doing by that point is actually reflecting back on what we've just talked about in terms of the new website, new logo, and really looking at did those things work for us and how those things work for us. So it's sprinkled in. with all these conversations that we're having, we've had some really interesting conversations with, business owners, with people who do amazing community work.
[00:31:37] We've got 2000 and eighteens act Australian of the year on this season of the podcast. we've got a politician, who's also a sustainable sort of environmental advocate. We've got a whole number of guests that I'm really excited for you to hear our conversations with. And on that note, thanks for joining me, Kelsey.
[00:31:56] Kelsey: [00:31:56] Thanks for having me on. It's been really fun.
[00:31:58] Germaine: [00:31:58] Yeah, it was. You looked a bit anxious at the start, but I think it's a fun thing to be able to hop on and have a conversation with someone candidly and, record it and then push it out there as a podcast episode for everyone else to hear.
[00:32:15] Kelsey: [00:32:15] Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on.
